GRiD Compass
7 December 2023
TT
21:02
T Tron
(For my best guess)
Y
21:03
YL3AKC
I am trying, but I need some time...
21:05
Hmm...

iWrCPU could be PIN1 on 16R4 ?
TT
21:06
T Tron
Should be the easiest to beep out
21:06
Does anyone have a board handy
Y
21:06
YL3AKC
Can you beep PIN1 and PIN11 on main board and find where it goes?
TT
21:08
T Tron
i need to go dig one out
21:08
would be even better if someone has one already out but
21:08
yes
Y
21:08
YL3AKC
PAL's PIN1 Could be connected to some kind of AND gate output. This gate input A can be WR line on BUS and
gate input B can be ouput from address decode logic.
21:09
In reply to this message
I don't have any Compass :(

I am working only with virtual materials from Internet :(
21:10
Kirill and Yuri have real hardware on hands.
21:12
stuck the psuedocode on the wiki
Y
21:13
YL3AKC 
Permission Denied

Sorry, you don't have enough rights to continue.
TT
21:13
T Tron
hmm
21:13
dm desired user name / email / "real name" / pw
Y
21:22
YL3AKC
So, OK. How about beeping pins?
TT
21:22
T Tron
Middle of the workday for me, I can't dig it out right now
21:23
maybe @Megabozyakorovka or @leskovezzz can
21:23
i will have some time in a couple days otherwise
Y
21:24
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I already asked, they can't now :(
21:24
Kirill is finishing Commodore64 game, Yuri don't have time.
TT
22:46
T Tron
where is the absolute latest RasPI GPIB code
Y
22:48
YL3AKC
Should be on my online archive. Or... On Kirill's computer. Lol.
TT
22:50
T Tron
if (value) { \
GPIO_IF_SetPullup(pin); \
GPIO_IF_SetMode(pin, GPIO_IF_INPUT); \
} else { \
GPIO_IF_SetMode(pin, GPIO_IF_OUTPUT); \
GPIO_IF_SetPinState(pin, value); \
} \
22:50
what's the logic here?
22:50
why are you fucking with the pull-ups
22:50
pull-ups should be set once at setup, no?
KL
22:51
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
I attached it here, lemme find it...
22:52
In reply to this message
guess that was done out of desperation :)
22:52
In reply to this message
that's the latest one I have
TT
22:52
T Tron
ok
22:52
that's what I'm looking at
22:52
just wanted to double check before i went to town
Y
22:53
YL3AKC
Idle state for bus is when pin is pulled up by resistor. It is called passive state.
TT
22:53
T Tron
In reply to this message
well, yes, you hi-z the bus
22:53
always when there is no talker
Y
22:53
YL3AKC
When you pull it to ground it is active state
TT
22:54
T Tron
but I am surprised you are doing it at each pin
22:54
that can cause glitches
22:54
> set Hi-Z vs active
22:54
> latch in values
22:54
... etc
22:54
I do this with the OE on my buffers, i guess
22:54
do all the pins (pull-up setting)
22:55
then do the digital writes
22:55
then put them back
22:55
IDK I need to play with this more
Y
22:56
YL3AKC
Usually bus driver IC is doing it for you, but when you connect epi directly to bus, there is nobody who pull bus.
22:57
Kirill already checked it with oscilloscope
22:58
This thing depends on your hardware. Some microcontrollers can do things differently.
23:01
In reply to this message
Also could be because of RPI gpio library and, as Kirill mentioned, desperation.
23:04
Fix these code lines according your hardware and MCU specs.
23:06
And GPiB logic levels make brain to boil because "low is high and high is low + pullups"
TT
23:19
T Tron
yes
23:19
computers were a mistake, btw
Y
23:21
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, they are. Thanks God, GRiD isn't computer.
23:22
GRiD is a laptop.
TT
23:39
T Tron
@Megabozyakorovka i'm porting your shit to my board
😁
KL
Y
23:39
rather than re-wire all this crap up to a Pi
KL
23:43
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
good luck with that!
23:44
sorry didn't want to sound mean or smth, just kinda tired to look at this spaghetti code
TT
23:44
T Tron
ha it's cool
8 December 2023
TT
00:10
T Tron
alright
00:10
up on teensy, 0 errors
00:10
let's try this
Y
00:11
YL3AKC
Waiting for results.
TT
00:16
T Tron
fucking WDT keeps going off
00:17
there must be a leak in here
00:17
that doesn't cause an issue on the pi's massive memory
00:17
go to bed
00:18
I'll hack on this tonight
00:19
i might also be retarded
00:20
Hi There.
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
00:20
well shit
00:21
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 18 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 18 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 48 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv bb atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv e7 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv c4 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 67 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 19 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 10 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv fe atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 57 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv fe atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv ff atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv a8 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv e1 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv d0 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 67 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 8d atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 27 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 8c atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 8c atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv cc atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 37 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 41 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv fe atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 50 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 37 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 98 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 9d atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 13 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 18 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 03 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 37 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 39 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv f3 atn 0 eoi 0
00:21
grid210x_device byte recv f2 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 33 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 6f atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 33 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 55 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 4c atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 93 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 03 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
00:21
that sure looks like part of the dance
00:22
no disk image yet
00:23
got an image I should try?
00:23
that you've tried in the emulator?
Y
00:25
YL3AKC
Image in in the same folder with code and dumps on my archive.
TT
00:27
T Tron
yeah i've got it up
Y
00:28
YL3AKC
Moar dumpsss from your console!
TT
00:29
T Tron
let me try and add some sense to this
00:29
even though I have no image
00:29
I'll try a hard drive
00:29
then a floppy
00:29
(boot+H, boot+F)
Y
00:29
YL3AKC
Boot+f
00:30
That code is for FDD
00:30
For HDD need to tweak some parameters.
TT
00:30
T Tron
--- Terminal on COM10 | 9600 8-N-1
--- Available filters and text transformations: colorize, debug, default, direct, hexlify, log2file, nocontrol, printable, send_on_enter, time
--- More details at https://bit.ly/pio-monitor-filters
--- Quit: Ctrl+C | Menu: Ctrl+T | Help: Ctrl+T followed by Ctrl+H
grid210x_device byte recv ff atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 2f atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 71 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 2a atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv fe atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv db atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device byte recv 83 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 1e atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv f8 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 86 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 9f atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv f9 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv ef atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv e0 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv ef atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv c7 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 43 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 06 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 8f atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv bb atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv e4 atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv fc atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 7c atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 7f atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv ff atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv df atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 7f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 1f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 06 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 38 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv cb atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv ea atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 46 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 8e atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 4a atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv e3 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv f9 atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv e9 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv e7 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv d7 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device byte recv fa atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv c6 atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv be atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 7f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv ff atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 7e atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv ef atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 8e atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 18 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
00:30
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 9a atn 1 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 5f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not talking
grid210x_device byte recv 97 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 26 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 14 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 25 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now listening
grid210x_device byte recv 01 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 34 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 0
grid210x_device byte recv 00 atn 0 eoi 1
grid210x_device byte recv 3f atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now not listening
grid210x_device command 1, data size 52, sector no 0
grid210x_device byte recv 45 atn 1 eoi 0
grid210x_device now talking
grid210x_device byte send 00 eoi 0
00:30
there is a burst of noise at the beginning
00:31
In reply to this message
I know but I want to watch the inquiry
Y
00:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's normal for first few seconds
TT
00:31
T Tron
yup
00:32
cool if i try to boot the HDD, the emulator doesn't respond and we see 14/24/14/24 cycle
00:32
neato
00:32
so this is running on teensy 4.0 btw
Y
00:33
YL3AKC
Use 115200 baud on code
00:33
9600 feels too slow...
00:35
And delay I/O pin code if necessary. If I remember correctly than good delay for pin toggling is 1-2 microseconds.
TT
01:10
T Tron
yes 9600 is glacial :)
01:10
ya i know how to tune the timings a bit
TT
01:57
T Tron
01:57
Floppy disk detected by OS
Y
02:01
YL3AKC
What about files on FDD?
TT
02:01
T Tron
fuck all
Y
02:01
YL3AKC
Okay?
TT
02:01
T Tron
aka. no files visible
02:01
times out, error 451
02:02
Sorry, this is not a rude expression here, just "the computer is showing 'fuck all'" - means none
02:02
I need to debug
02:02
I also had to re-enable the callback registration for G210x_NRFD_Callback(GPIB_Read_NRFD()); to get it to show up
02:03
now, I am not using normal posix files, since this is an MCU I am using some shit SD card library, so I need to make sure the changes I made to the fseek / fread / fwrite logic aren't messed up
02:04
you should be asleep lol
Y
02:04
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Unix haters... 😂
02:05
In reply to this message
But I'm not
TT
02:05
T Tron
i should be working but my annoying coworker is back
02:05
how far did this get on the real compass
Y
02:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Lol
TT
03:51
T Tron
man i'm not here to throw stones but
03:51
that code really is fuckin spaghetti
03:52
I respect the output but, fuck me staring at it hurts
u
04:02
usernameak
In reply to this message
yeah it was just thrown together :D
04:02
In reply to this message
one or two times it even got to display a really corrupted boot logo
04:02
but mostly - checksum or timeout errors after a few sectors
TT
04:09
T Tron
@usernameak you have a void beast?
u
04:09
usernameak
In reply to this message
huh?
TT
04:10
T Tron
black cat
04:10
void beast
u
04:10
usernameak
ahhhhhh
if you're talking about the one on my pfp - that's not mine, just a random pic from the web :)
TT
04:10
T Tron
ahhh ok
u
04:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
i really didn't
it's all mostly core system stuff ported to DOS
TT
04:14
T Tron
i need a stiff drink
04:14
i should have been working but instead i've been fucking with this
04:15
u
04:15
usernameak
In reply to this message
neat
Y
04:55
YL3AKC
There are few other neat. Sent by Kirill's youtube channel fans during competition...

https://grid.bs0dd.net/index.php?lang=eng&dir=vk_group_competition
05:07
In reply to this message
That was reason why I started write my own version for emulator, but... Didn't finished. Even if I am at works and feel sleepy, I have some motivation now to continue... Or, at least, look on my code.
TT
05:15
T Tron
I should design a PCB with the actual driver ICs
Y
05:27
YL3AKC
I almost finished. Need to add I2C pins and current limiting resistors.
TT
05:28
T Tron
Has anyone disassembled the 8051 code
05:28
In the portable floppy?
u
05:29
usernameak
we don't even have a dump... :/
TT
05:29
T Tron
I can make one
u
05:29
usernameak
oh neat
05:29
In reply to this message
like, i think we do have a dump of the secondary ROM (it mostly contains various configuration data)
05:29
but not the 8051's internal one
TT
05:30
T Tron
I think I have a way to do the internal one
05:30
If not, I can dump the 80186 code for the GRiD Disc System
05:30
(The big mass storage enclosure)
Y
05:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
And what about 8741A keyboard controller dump?
TT
05:31
T Tron
I have to look into it
Y
05:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Where I can find this dump?
u
05:32
usernameak
In reply to this message
i think @Megabozyakorovka sent it somewhere around here
05:32
unless I'm having false memories
Y
05:33
YL3AKC
I didn't remeber this... Most probably, not send.
TT
05:33
T Tron
FWIW, I am calling it a night on testing at least but… I ported the raspi code over to my teensy board, which has 5v bidirectional level shifters, and I see the same unreliable shit.

Sometimes it comes up as a “Floppy”

Sometimes a “Portable floppy”

Sometimes it gets the read first sector command, sometimes not.

I played with timings a bit, nothing
05:34
So I am assuming that-

1) we have a subtle issue in the protocol logic and timing

Or

2) I have some kind of termination or buffering issue
05:35
I do have a “real” GPIB protocol analyzer that I will bust out soon, but there is no guarantee it is not too forgiving of electrical issues
Y
05:35
YL3AKC
Kirill had success to read something like 10 sectors...
05:36
In reply to this message
Any cheap LA with 16 channels?
05:37
Maybe its's time to hook LA between TMS9914 and driver ICs instead of GPiB bus.
👍
TT
TT
05:37
T Tron
No, I have a big ass retarded LA with 192 channels, and this: nothing in between
05:37
05:37
:)
Y
05:37
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Connect BigAss LA and go!
TT
05:38
T Tron
As a last resort we can do that and look at all the state at once
05:38
Incl the compass busses
05:39
But I won’t have time to set up that kind of thing until January
05:39
(Or space)
Y
05:39
YL3AKC
You need 16+20 channels. Need to hook on both sides for both driver ICs.
u
05:39
usernameak
btw we noticed interesting thing
05:40
the identification command seems to almost always get there
TT
05:40
T Tron
In reply to this message
If I pull out the big LA I’m just going to hook up the cpu busses on the 8086 too
ВЗ
05:40
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
Hah
Y
05:40
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
You need at least 1 moth just to set up... I saw CuriosMarc HP repair videos...
TT
05:41
T Tron
CuriousMarc is a clown
05:41
He brought up an alto SMPS on a variac
05:41
Ken is cool tho
Y
05:41
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Somehow I missed this event...
05:41
I am more on Apollo and RF stuff.
TT
05:42
T Tron
Also he tested an unknown drive with a rare alignment pack
05:42
And hosed it
Y
05:42
YL3AKC
That episode with drilling/milling hard disk plate?
TT
05:43
T Tron
Yeah.

Good thing the diablos in the alto are pretty easy to sort of half-ass align.
05:43
I just do the alignment on my alto with a scope and “by feel”
05:43
I don’t own an alignment pack
05:44
In reply to this message
Hmmm
Y
05:44
YL3AKC
Need to rewatch Alto repair. I remember only end when in VCFed exhibition came original software authors , exploded SMPSu (maybe?)
u
05:44
usernameak
In reply to this message
it has slower timings from the GRiD's side for some reason
TT
05:45
T Tron
I restored my alto quietly without making 100 YouTube videos :)
Y
05:45
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Why CPU buses? It is better to hook on PALs, but need homework: draw some main board schematics.
TT
05:46
T Tron
In reply to this message
I suppose that’s a compatibility safety thing from the GRiD side so they can detect peripherals that might need more tolerance
Y
05:46
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
But you didn't restored AGC and don't have AP-101S...
TT
05:46
T Tron
Once they know “hey this is the portable floppy” they tighten up timings
05:46
In reply to this message
I am not rich like Marc :)
05:47
In reply to this message
See what’s going in and out of the GPIB controller
05:47
And what the CPU is doing otherwise
Y
05:47
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Two floor Palace + basement for torturing electronics....
TT
05:48
T Tron
In California: atherton. That house must be $10,000,000 USD
Y
05:48
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
This can be done with software emulator.
u
05:50
usernameak
In reply to this message
note that they read GPIB data in a very wonky way
05:50
they basically just memcpy stuff from a specific address
Y
05:50
YL3AKC
test.log
1013 B
u
05:50
usernameak
In reply to this message
idk how it's all synchronized though
Y
05:58
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
With magic!
06:01
T BTW, all datasheets for 1101 are here: https://grid.bs0dd.net/index.php?lang=eng&dir=IC+datasheets
👍
TT
KL
14:42
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
I'll send LA dumps when I'll be home
Y
15:14
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Я понял что это не про дампы логического анализатора.
Вроде у тебя есть дамп внешней ПЗУ от контроллера флопика.
KL
15:28
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
А... Нет, увы

Там контроллер же со вшитым ROM
15:28
Я его не дампил
Y
15:30
YL3AKC
Но вы вроде видели содержание внешнего ПЗУ. Там вроде зашиты какие-то параметры конфигураций...
15:30
Я об этом.
Y
16:53
YL3AKC
Hmm... Maybe I need to buy these for test and training before try to read D8741A keyboard controller...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/393601713321
KL
19:32
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Внешний дампил, но вот где его искать, этот дамп...
14 December 2023
Y
19:57
YL3AKC
Trying to write TMS9914a code and understand what is going on in 1101 CCPROM code...
19:57
😕
18 December 2023
TT
06:23
T Tron
Sorry I have been traveling
06:23
Back to grid in a couple weeks
Y
07:03
YL3AKC
That's normal. I also regularly disconnecting from "The Matrix".
19 December 2023
TT
21:00
T Tron
going on 8 hour flight
21:00
where is the latest emulator stuff I should try and work with
21:01
fuck debugging anything without a simulated twin
Y
21:23
YL3AKC
Well... You already have it!
TT
21:23
T Tron
no I meant the Compass end of things...
21:23
One of you did an emulator, right?
21:23
I saw some code on the archive
21:23
is there a place that more formally lives?
Y
21:23
YL3AKC
I'm also on touring in another country.
👍
TT
TT
21:23
T Tron
version control, etc.
Y
21:24
YL3AKC
Work done for today. Time for gin & tonic!
🔥
TT
21:24
In reply to this message
Not yet ☹️
u
21:25
usernameak
In reply to this message
that was me
🔥
TT
21:26
it's in the MAME mainline tree
there were some updates that weren't upstreamed, but i never got to port them to the latest version of MAME
TT
21:26
T Tron
fucking mame
21:27
ok :[
21:27
let's try it
21:27
I'll try and get mame building
Y
21:27
YL3AKC
My emulator is not complete yet.

I wrote it because had no luck with mame compiling
u
21:27
usernameak
In reply to this message
in case you want that downstream build - there is one prebuilt courtesy of @Blue_Screen_0f_Death http://old-dos.ru/dl.php?id=22032
👍
TT
21:28
(sources were here: https://github.com/usernameak/mame/tree/gridcomp)
👍
TT
TT
21:29
T Tron
fucking hell cloning this on airport wifi
21:29
Receiving objects: 7% (74615/1034963), 38.19 MiB | 4.64 MiB/s
u
21:30
usernameak
do a shallow clone :D
TT
21:31
T Tron
does mass storage emulation work?
u
21:31
usernameak
In reply to this message
it works unless you plug in multiple drives
TT
21:32
T Tron
only need one
21:32
going to clone my compass disc system with all my shit on it
21:32
better grab MFM Utils and the flux image before we go up!
Y
21:41
YL3AKC
8 hours of flight... Are you going to Iceland?
TT
21:42
T Tron
funny thing that; we are doing Seattle to UK
21:42
originally booked icelandair with the KEF connection
21:42
Got an email yesterday that there is an ATC strike & to expect delays.
21:42
Then hear their volcano went off.
21:43
Anyway, yesterday morning we moved to BA nonstop to LHR
Y
21:43
YL3AKC
Take some duct tape and fix that volcano thing.
😁
TT
TT
21:43
T Tron
anyway, rebooking with <24h, always fun
1 January 2024
Armin joined group by request
Y
22:42
YL3AKC
Welcome @ConventionalMemories !
YL3AKC invited EXL
u
22:47
usernameak
какие люди
22:47
а как
Y
22:48
YL3AKC
Вот причина...
Y
22:48
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:43:38
Кстати, под GRiD если что-то написать мне захочется, там же доступен компилятор C?
Y
22:55
YL3AKC
@exlmoto
E
22:56
EXL
In reply to this message
Ага. Форвардни тогда обсуждение сюда из чата Кирилла.
22:57
@usernameak а что за док там был именно с Pascal, если я правильно помню? Официальный ведь API там был описан?
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:35:12
Ух, как бы круто Bad Apple на этом янтарненьком экране GRiD'а смотрелся!
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:37:23
In reply to this message
Пока есть трудности со скоростью передачи данных в видео буфер.
22:58
Если у Кирилла пока есть ГРиД кейс, то может на таком попробовать?
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:43:38
In reply to this message
Кстати, под GRiD если что-то написать мне захочется, там же доступен компилятор C?
22:58
Кажется я листал давно какую-то документацию по API GRiD OS, вроде как там был Pascal, раньше он часто юзался (те же классические Macintosh'и).
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:45:32
In reply to this message
Не совсем. Что-то вроде есть но не до конца и народ над этим работает.

Но ГРиД кейс... Там ДОС...
22:58
In reply to this message
Паскаль есть
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:47:45
In reply to this message
компилятор си нашли
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:47:47
но без библиотек
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:48:00
с библиотеками есть паскаль и PL/M
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:48:37
In reply to this message
разве что если с харда стримить
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:48:56
In reply to this message
Есть проект библиотеки на гитхабе...
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:49:01
если что, там ОС с полноценной вытесняющей многозадачностью :)
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:49:29
In reply to this message
там правда звук некуда выводить, йэээээх....
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:49:30
In reply to this message
Или с Малинки..
22:58
In reply to this message
Есть куда, но...
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:49:54
In reply to this message
но как
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:50:01
разве что внешним девайсом
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:50:39
In reply to this message
В размере фреймов проблема? Какое там разрешение? В 1BPP запихать если всё и пожать?
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:50:55
На модеме есть ЦАПы, но пока не понятно как это работает.
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:50:57
In reply to this message
там 320x240 или 512x256 в зависимости от модели
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:51:08
больше 1BPP оно выводить не умеет - экран монохромен
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:51:57
In reply to this message
По расчетам у проца не хватает времени...
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:52:05
но тут фишка в том, что там слегка разогнанный 8086, поэтому не факт что скорости проца на декомпрессию хватит)
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:52:21
экран там по моему 66гц
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:52:37
In reply to this message
И линковаться к PL/M и паскалевским API самой OS нельзя? В Mac OS помню была интероперация между C и Pascal, туда даже запилии всякие расширения типа паскалевских строчек, вызовов и подобного.
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:53:10
In reply to this message
там апи системы напрямую без либок вызвать вообще можно только из-под асма из-за специфичного calling convention
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 01.01.2024 22:54:28
@exlmoto @usernameak может в ГРиД чат? Чтоб осталось для истории?
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
E
EXL 01.01.2024 22:54:37
In reply to this message
Тогда много будет всё это весить, да.

Можно, конечно, попробовать поделить разрешения на условные 4 и FPS подобрать...
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:54:45
компилится софт под него старыми интеловскими компиляторами
22:58
u
usernameak 01.01.2024 22:55:25
рекомендую PL/M, потому что досовая версия компилятора паскаля похоже утеряна, а в эмуляторе грида компилить pain :)
22:59
u
usernameak 18.12.2022 22:11:16
это дока GUI-тулкита если что :)
https://deltacxx.insomnia247.nl/gridcompass/large_files/Yahoo%20group%20backup/RuGRiD-Laptop/files/6_GRiD-OS-Programming/3_GRiD-OS-Reference.pdf
апи системы тут
u
22:59
usernameak
In reply to this message
вообще грид технически может читать диски до 2ТБ :)
E
22:59
EXL
In reply to this message
Ага, нашёл, спасибо.
u
22:59
usernameak
In reply to this message
но файловая система не может быть больше 32 мб
Y
23:01
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
2 ТБ или 2 ГБ?
u
23:01
usernameak
In reply to this message
тб
23:02
если конечно без фокусов с нестандартным размером сектора
Y
23:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Хмм... Я уже забыл... Давно не ковырялся...
E
23:02
EXL
u
usernameak 18.12.2022 21:49:42
да, так вот, у Palm OS (времён чб палмов) апи графики местами похоже настолько, что совпадают один в один имена функций
u
23:02
usernameak
In reply to this message
тогда в принципе можно даже больше навернуть
Y
23:03
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Magic! 😉
E
23:03
EXL
@usernameak вот кстати насчет сходства Palm OS и GRiD в плане API, а ты смотрел доки на PPSM OS которая с Palm OS конкурировала?
u
23:03
usernameak
In reply to this message
не
E
23:03
EXL
Может и там есть сходство какое
23:03
Я с PalmOS не особо знаком просто по части API.
23:04
In reply to this message
Ща линкану
u
23:04
usernameak
но тут сходство банально сайд-эффект того, что в их разработке участвовали одни и те же люди :)
Y
23:05
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Один из основателей пальма работал в ГРиДе. Теперь нейронами заниматься.
u
23:05
usernameak
In reply to this message
концепты схожие и некоторые апи явно подсмотрели у палма, в остальном сходство не очень :)
E
23:06
EXL
In reply to this message
И вот ещё одно, более новое

https://forum.motofan.ru/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=278208
23:06
In reply to this message
Ясно, но оно точно с оглядкой на первые пальмы клепалось.
u
23:06
usernameak
теперь мне стало интересно, насколько Bad Apple возможен на гриде
23:07
In reply to this message
грид пусть и довольно шустрая машина для своего времени, но не шустрая в целом
23:07
но у него быстрая шина
23:07
это плюс
E
23:08
EXL
In reply to this message
Да скорее всего возможно, пусть даже и с некоторыми ограничениями, отсутствием звука и т. д.
Y
23:11
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Эмм... Там 1-2 максимум 4 ФПС
u
23:11
usernameak
In reply to this message
по GPIB теоретически можно перекачивать до мегабита в секунду
Y
23:12
YL3AKC
Если даже пихать из гпиб через ДМА в асме, то всё равно медленно.
23:14
Наверное надо идти к компьютеру и смотреть в деталях...
23:14
Или спать...
23:16
In reply to this message
Помнишь как работает псевдоДМА? Проц ерундой занимается... Много циклов теряется...
23:17
rep movsb
23:21
По крайней мере я так понял из CCPROM кода инициализации GPiB.
23:22
И после подгонка тайминга эмулятора у меня было 2 ФПС? Но это не точно.
23:23
Может быть есть что то более эффективное, но надо ковыряться.
23:29
Нечто вроде:
Mov ax, fbsegment
Mov ds, ax

Mov CX, pixel count/16

Rep mov [word] ds:fbdata, 0xE000
u
23:33
usernameak
In reply to this message
я не уверен что оно может читаться шириной больше 8 бит
Y
23:35
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
И это тоже. Тут только тесты с реальным железом
23:35
Судя по патенту - может
23:39
Тут концепция перегона данных из гпиб в фрейм буфер https://grid.bs0dd.net/tmp/dma_demo.asm
u
23:40
usernameak
это барметал
Y
23:42
YL3AKC
Красиво работало пока эмулятор гнал на всех порах. Как только поставил тормоза процессору, так сразу ФПС упал до 2
23:43
In reply to this message
Да, это хак на эмулье.
23:52
@usernameak а написать на ПЛ/М тест заливания экрана и дать Кириллу чтобы он запустил на железе?
u
23:52
usernameak
In reply to this message
типа шоб бенч был?
23:52
через апи системы или прямой доступ к фреймбуфферу?
E
23:52
EXL
Да, вот fill rate тест многое бы разъяснил
23:53
Кирилл, кстати, такой делал для 3310 как раз, когда тоже столкнулся с проблемами производительности, как помню.
Y
23:53
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Да, бенч с прямым доступом к железу.
23:54
In reply to this message
Да, делал, проблема была с математикой а заливка работала быстро.
E
23:55
EXL
In reply to this message
Лучше два сразу, как раз можно будет сравнить во сколько раз одно медленее другого 😄
2 January 2024
A
17:42
Armin
Hi from Belgium.
Hi everyone, I'm new here.
Very happy to see all of the work that's going into the GRiD Compass.
I don't have any experience programming. but I might be able to help with testing on real harware if needed.
I have an 1101 that's up and running and I have acces to a second one with a later motherboard rev. (same as 1109)
17:44
Next project; upgrade the RAM in the 1101 to 512k to make it effectively a 1109
Has anyone done a RAM upgrade on their Compass?
Cheers,
Armin
Y
18:59
YL3AKC
Hi! Nice to see you here!
19:00
Interesting idea about 1101 with 512kb.
19:01
I think it is worth to try, but carefully and not to damage 1101
19:02
Right now we are in process of making FDD/HDD emulator.
19:03
And do the other things. Not because they are easy, but because they are hard!
TT
20:27
T Tron
Hello
20:27
I’m back from the stupid holiday now
20:27
I will be making a PCB with GPIB bus interfaces for the teensy 4.1 soon
Y
20:28
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I a preparing for another 3 day in row work. 😞
TT
20:28
T Tron
To my euro & Russian friends, I would like to move the drive emulator from rPI to Teensy. Let me know if I need to mail forward any teensy boards to you.
Y
20:31
YL3AKC
Are you developing PCB?
TT
20:32
T Tron
Yes
20:32
I have outsourced it to a friend with more free time actually
20:32
He is adapting my design but making the PCB smaller and sexier
Y
20:33
YL3AKC
With original bus drivers?
TT
20:33
T Tron
Should be done in a couple weeks
20:33
In reply to this message
We are likely going to use the SOIC package of the Ti driver
20:33
We should buy a bunch of them before they go EoL
20:33
Unfortunately they ARE going EOL
Y
20:35
YL3AKC
It is possible to make them with discreet transistors and some 74HC series ICs.
7 January 2024
Y
13:23
YL3AKC
@exlmoto как нащет сделать bad apple для GRiD Case 2.

Отладить можно на IBM XT 8088 с видеокартой в разрешении 6400х200 1 бит. Это будет легче и в первый итерации не надо железо ГРиДа привлекать. А там видно будет как пойдет.
ВЗ
13:24
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
под XT и так есть видеокодек
13:24
там вертели бэд эпл
13:24
так что не так интересно
Y
13:29
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Интерес в том, что ГРиД кейс 2 похож на ХТ. Заработает на ХТ, и можно будет попробовать на реальном железе кейса 2, который у Кирилла. А там уже ЭЛ дисплей. Во время кодирования выявится косяки и понятие что работает и не работает на кейсе и как это перенести на компас.
ВЗ
13:29
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
У второго кейса же LCD уже?
Y
13:30
YL3AKC
Hi @ConventionalMemories how it's going?
13:30
In reply to this message
Не важно, важно написать чтоб работало.
ВЗ
13:31
Владислав Задорожкин
Так есть же кодек для проигрывания анимаций на XT в CGA
Загнал конвертером в файл и играй плеером
Y
13:31
YL3AKC
@ConventionalMemories what about Compass main board beeping? We need a plan how to do it online.
👍
A
ВЗ
13:31
Владислав Задорожкин
Я как-то возился
Y
13:34
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Тогда просто сделай чтоб работало на кейс 2, отправь Кириллу и он попробует. Тут вопрос в том числе и по скорости. Если кейс 2 потянет, то и компас потянет.
13:44
GRiD compass related projects:
* RPi based FDD/HDD emulator (Kirill, YL3AKC, usernameak)
* 1101 schematics (Armin, YL3AKC)
* CCPROM reverse engineering (usernameak, YL3AKC)
* Compass network research (T Tron)
* Repair Kirill's compass 1129 (Kirill, YL3AKC)
* Upgrade ram to 512 kB for compass (Armin, YL3AKC)
* Bad apple on compass (EXL)

Other ideas?
ВЗ
14:21
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
так, откопал у себя эту радость
14:22
In reply to this message
но есть один НЮАНС
14:22
жирно
14:22
как минимум потому, что в файле еще и звуковая дорожка есть
14:22
хз сколько будет без нее
Y
14:59
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
20 метров - это много! Надо в 3 метра.
E
15:11
EXL
In reply to this message
Время бы мне кто отсыпал на всё это 😄
Постарел, выгорать стал даже на хобби-проектах.
15:12
In reply to this message
Кстати сорцов там нет?
ВЗ
15:15
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
Есть на пасцале
15:15
Момент
E
15:15
EXL
In reply to this message
20 метров похоже что кадры без упаковки и всяких RLE
15:15
все 30 fps скорее всего
ВЗ
15:15
Владислав Задорожкин
https://x86dc.wordpress.com
15:15
Сайтец
15:16
Сырцо
E
15:16
EXL
In reply to this message
я обычным zlib'ом паковал в 2.76 MB но это 220x176 было
Y
15:18
YL3AKC
Как нибудь попробую с Delta encoding поиграться
A
20:50
Armin
In reply to this message
Hi, I just received pictures of a 1109 motherboard from a friend. And this confirms my suspicion that the later 1101 motherboards are the same as the ones on the 1109. so an upgrade shouldn't be too hard.
20:50
In reply to this message
20:52
In reply to this message
You can message me directly, and then we can plan a bit better.
21:00
GIF
Some inspiration, Bad apple on a 640x200 EL display. (this is a display test I did a couple of years ago to test the display of a broken laptop on a RPI)
🔥
E
21:03
Also, If anyone needs any testing done on real hardware I'd be happy to help. I have acces to almost every GRiDcase model.
21:05
Including a GRiDcase 4 with 1bpp 640x200 EL display and a GRiDcase 1537e with a 4bpp 640x400 EL display
Y
22:45
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Hmm! Something new and interesting...
22:45
In reply to this message
Wow! Looks amazing!
u
22:46
usernameak
In reply to this message
wow, that's a really late one
A
22:53
Armin
In reply to this message
Last date code on that 1101 is 39th week of 83, PCB rev C. and for the 1109 that's 2nd week of 84, PCB REV D
u
22:55
usernameak
http://deltacxx.insomnia247.nl/gridcompass/motherboard.jpg
nearly as late (some date codes have 83/38), but the old design
Y
22:55
YL3AKC
Looks like GRiD moved from PALs to ASICs and manufacturer is the same MMI
A
22:58
Armin
just did a quick comparison on the two MB's
u
23:00
usernameak
In reply to this message
and if you compare the board to the one above (that's an 1101 as well)... wait, did they use both designs at the same time?
Y
23:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Do you have super high resolution photos for PCBs? I need to figure out PAL and ASIC stuff.
23:02
In reply to this message
Could be possible...
A
23:04
Armin
In reply to this message
it appears so, I can see datecodes up to 8341 on that one, so it is actually newer then my 1101 with the new motherboard
u
23:06
usernameak
In reply to this message
xProm 0.25 3/16/83
Copyright (c) 1982 GRiD Systems Corporation
string from its ROM dump
A
23:08
Armin
When I'm working on the RAM / have it opened up I'll dump the rom from this newer MB as well
u
23:08
usernameak
this one was dumped from inside the OS
A
23:09
Armin
Ahh, that might be easier, any tips on how to do that?
u
23:09
usernameak
http://deltacxx.insomnia247.nl/gridcompass/MAIN.RUN
run this thing on it
23:10
it'll dump it to ``Programs`Bios~Binary~
23:10
(`` is the current drive)
A
23:10
Armin
Tnx will do
u
23:10
usernameak
http://deltacxx.insomnia247.nl/gridcompass/MAIN.PLM
source code just in case
TT
23:11
T Tron
Getting that SDK together was such a fucking pain in the ass
23:12
I bought literal pallets of shit just to get at the docs, and in the hopes the contents of a few of the Disc Systems would be intact
u
23:12
usernameak
this thing was actually compiled with the DOS version of UDI toolchain
23:12
hehe
A
23:12
Armin
Any easier way to do file transfers? my current method: FILE -> disk image -> USB -> gotek -> 2102 -> 1101
TT
23:12
T Tron
Yeah, that will work if you don’t need the CCOS stuff
u
23:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
it works with CCOS libraries just fine :)
TT
23:13
T Tron
In reply to this message
I never finished my transfer utility
👍
A
23:13
In reply to this message
Where do you think the CCOS libraries came from?
u
23:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
from you!
TT
23:13
T Tron
:) So much crap. I wonder if I have pictures
23:14
It was like 90% junk
23:14
Old epson printers and stuff
23:14
scrappers have shit for brains
23:16
I really need to RE the gridshare protocol
A
23:16
Armin
In reply to this message
Tnx for doing that, I can relate, I've picked up / paid shipping for way to many printers included with unrelated stuff.
TT
23:17
T Tron
Just happy we all have the tools now
23:17
It was well worth it even if cherryhomes took it and plastered it all over the web with his name on it
23:18
I really really want to get to the point where running the SDK and deploying to a remote (real) grid target works
23:19
I’ve sat down and tried to RE the GRiDlink drivers and the GridShare protocol but life keeps getting in the way
Y
23:19
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I think he is out of GRiD stuff now. Looks like he works on that esp32 module for 8-bit computers.
TT
23:20
T Tron
In reply to this message
He floats from thing to thing kind of self-promoting with a savior complex :)
23:20
I prefer to work quietly hahaha
23:21
@ConventionalMemories you are aware of the grid link and grid share stuff yeah?
23:21
Multiuser block-oriented file sharing
A
23:22
Armin
pics 1109 internals.zip
41.5 MB
These are all the pics I have for the 1109, but I can take some better ones from my 1101 if needed.
u
23:22
usernameak
In reply to this message
fancy network filesystem, huh? :)
Y
23:22
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
GRiDlink drivers? Can you give me any binary of them?

I'll try to run them thru my OMF analyser and extract executable code.
TT
23:23
T Tron
In reply to this message
It should be in the images we have around… GRiDlink~device~ is the SDLC flavor
23:23
PhoneLink~device~ is the Async Serial (and built in modem) flavor
Y
23:23
YL3AKC
Okay, I'll check them tomorrow. It's to late here (0:23)
TT
23:24
T Tron
When loaded, these appear as sign-in options in GridManager
23:24
When signed in and negotiated, a local disk device (`l0?`) attaches
A
23:25
Armin
In reply to this message
Aware, Yes. But haven't played around with it. I did just DIY an adapter for that DE19 connector. Anyone have any leads on the correct connector? they seem impossible to find.
TT
23:25
T Tron
GRiDshare~run~ from my master disk set will run on a compass and set up a local listener
23:25
To share out it’s disk
Y
23:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Original can be found on digikey.
u
23:26
usernameak
In reply to this message
i haven't seen one for any half-decent price ;)
TT
23:26
T Tron
In reply to this message
you won't find one for a half decent price
23:26
you need to pay an indecent one
23:26
the Alto mouse connector is the same fucking ITT Canon 2DE19[S,P] connector
Y
23:27
YL3AKC
I have an idea regarding ITT 19 pin. There are DIP IC sockets with round metal inserts... Maybe these round inserts fit into ITT 19 pin connector?
TT
23:28
T Tron
turned pin? could be
23:28
anyway, the connectors are around
A
23:28
Armin
That's what I did for now
TT
23:28
T Tron
I would just throw the $120 bucks at digikey
A
23:28
Armin
TT
23:28
T Tron
[once]
A
23:29
Armin
Pins from a de15 socket
u
23:29
usernameak
In reply to this message
and the shell?
A
23:29
Armin
In reply to this message
From a de9 connector
u
23:30
usernameak
In reply to this message
heh, DE15 is way more common at least
Y
23:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
If this fit into ITT 19 pin, remaining is relatively easy. Just PCB and that's it!
u
23:32
usernameak
In reply to this message
would look clunky but hey, if it works it works
Y
23:33
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Not that clunky.
23:33
Who can test dip socket inseet fitting thing on itt 19 pin?
u
23:36
usernameak
In reply to this message
by the way, fun stuff from when we dumped it
23:36
it was just corrupting the floppy disk when trying to dump it and we couldn't figure out why
A
23:36
Armin
In reply to this message
I don't think they will, but give me a minute. I have both within reach
u
23:36
usernameak
In reply to this message
turned out it was a low-level floppy formatting issue and it was getting corrupted when anything at all was written to it :D
Y
23:37
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's from Kirill's 1129?
u
23:37
usernameak
In reply to this message
from his 1101
Y
23:37
YL3AKC
Or famous 1139?
u
23:37
usernameak
In reply to this message
reason? never write DD floppies on HD drives - it doesn't work reliably
u
23:38
usernameak
In reply to this message
that's the exact same binary
A
23:39
Armin
In reply to this message
Hah, tnx for the tip. But I'll be using my gotek for dumping, saves me from writing disks
Y
23:40
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I'm trying to finish disassembly for this one and trying to write binary compatible source code with fasm.
u
23:40
usernameak
In reply to this message
what about the GPIB drive driver, which for some reason wraps around the address space to access its RAM data? ;)
Y
23:41
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I'm afraid I don't understand what do you mean.
u
23:42
usernameak
In reply to this message
IIRC it was using some weird RAM addressing scheme
Y
23:44
YL3AKC
From time to time I'm trying to write TMS9914A emulation so, 1101 CCPROM be happy with status read from fake TMS9914A on my emulator.
23:44
In reply to this message
Do you mean PseudoDMA stuff?
u
23:44
usernameak
In reply to this message
nah
Y
23:45
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
???
u
23:46
usernameak
In reply to this message
i can't recall so quickly
23:46
i remember some quirky data segment that was actually wrapping around the address space
23:47
maybe false memories idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Y
23:47
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Me too! It was some time ago when I was diving deep in that stuff.
A
23:49
Armin
In reply to this message
Unfortunately they don't fit, you really need a thinner tube. Outer diameter of dip socket is too large and inner diameter is too small
23:49
Hard to see on pictures
Y
23:53
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
What if you use file, saw or dremel to remove fat part on metal shell?
A
23:54
Armin
In reply to this message
The inner diameter is also too small
Y
23:55
YL3AKC
Or we need to ask for help from Adam Savage, CuriousMarc or Samtec...
23:55
In reply to this message
That sux...
A
23:55
Armin
At that point it's easier to just cannibalise a de15
23:55
The pins fit very well
Y
23:56
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Will it fit after cannibalisation?
A
23:56
Armin
Could be done cleaner. But works great
Y
23:57
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Interesting...
8 January 2024
Y
00:00
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I need to cannibalise de9 and see metal inserts. Still thinking that it's possible to make custom PCB with metal inserts from de9/de15
00:01
Yes, I inspired from CuriousMarc Apollo Comms restoration...
A
00:36
Armin
In reply to this message
I'm pretty sure you could fit it. But is there any reason to use a pcb? Why solder pins and wires to a pcb. When you could solder wires directly to the pins?
Y
00:43
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
For mechanical strength. But it is only theory, because I don't have real thing.
A
00:52
Armin
An easier way would be to make an alignment and soldering jig. A high temperature resin 3d print should do I think. Just to place the pins in the correct location and glue them then solder. Then you could have a perfectly aligned connector when the jig is removed.
01:00
SLA should have the accuracy needed. And with the right resin also the temperature resistance.

The way I did it now was:
Solder pins to wires.
Heatshrink.
Place pins in connector.
Hot glue pins together.
Remove from connector.
Place metal shroud and pins back in connector.
Hot glue shroud to pins.
Remove from connector.
Add epoxy for strength.

But with a good jig one could do it all in one go with better glue.
Y
01:15
YL3AKC
Are pin pitch the same as in de15/VGA?
TT
19:04
T Tron
In reply to this message
curiousmarc is a moron
19:04
there's nothing he can do that the people here can't
19:04
I've met him many many times
19:04
he is a charlatan but has some good folks in his "backing band"
19:04
ken is awesome and super helpful
Y
19:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
He is manager! 😜
19:17
In reply to this message
Well... I don't have machining tools. And don't have so many measurement equipment... And miss Ken's and tubetime brains.
TT
19:19
T Tron
ya tubetime is cool
19:19
i like tubetime and ken a lot, I bump into both of them from time to time
19:19
marc, well, I could live without LOL
Y
19:22
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
He is making good videos and is good when explaining complex things in simple language. Including Cesium clock and microwave electronics.
19:23
Even 9825 and RTC repairs was good.
19:23
And Apollo Comms.
19:24
And they have access to space shuttle computer...
TT
19:44
T Tron
"We have space shuttle computer at home"\
👍
A
Y
19:46
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
In basement!
A
21:28
Armin
I actually quite like curiousmarc's video's. He puts a lot of effort into them. And although you might not learn any restoration tips, I definitely learned some stuff.

You just have to remember that it is youtube, and just entertainment. If you want 100% facts and numbers you can read manuals and technical documents.

But I quite like to watch some youtube restorations and stuff. ;)
Y
21:35
YL3AKC
It doesn't matter anyway. Some people like it, some don't...
21:39
In reply to this message
Check DM!
9 January 2024
Y
16:51
YL3AKC
@ConventionalMemories Nice MB pics! Now I can figure out more PAL IC names and relations to GRiD part numbers...
Y
17:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
What are GRiD part numbers on Kirill's 1101 PROM chips? I can't see them on main board picture.
u
18:21
usernameak
In reply to this message
you can see them in the ROM dump itself
18:21
they're very dim on the actual chips
18:22
In reply to this message
they're interleaved so it might look weird
Y
18:24
YL3AKC
Okay, let me check and compare numbers with C.M. 1101 and 1109 pics...
18:28
CCPROM part numbers:
Kirill: 3001442-04 3001443-04
C.M. 1101 (new): 300250-04 300251-04
C.M. 1109: 300373-04 300374-04
18:29
It would be interesting to compare and see diff
18:31
both C.M. mobos ASICs have the same GRiD part number 300063-00

Also Yuri's 1121 hve the same ASIC part number...
18:33
Looks like it's possible to double RAM size on C.M.s 1101 mobo...
18:34
Looks like ASIC do video and DRAM refresh stuff, and, maybe DMA stuff.
18:34
By reversing old MoBo PALs it coulde be possible to reconstruct ASIC internals for new 1101, 1107, 1109 and 1121.
18:41
Also looks like keyboard controller have the same firmware on all compasses (1101-1139) because part numbers are the same on all mobo pics.
u
21:55
usernameak
In reply to this message
it's 300143/300142
21:57
it is a bit confusing in the rom, but if you think about it, you'll get it - the low-order bytes are on one chip, and the high-order ones are on the another
10 January 2024
Y
00:32
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, it was another typo mistake...
A
00:59
Armin
Anyone with a good floppy image conversion utility? I've been using HxC utility for converting and this works great with the IMD imagedisk CCOS files.
But It doesn't like the GRiD IMG images and ends up writing disks that give me checksum errors on the Compass.
Y
01:03
YL3AKC
I'm using these utilities https://github.com/keirf/Disk-Utilities
A
01:05
Armin
tnx, I'll give it a try
Y
01:11
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's from flashfloppy (alternative firmware for gotek) author
01:13
I can be annoying, slept only 2.5 hours from 39 by now... So, sorry in advance.
01:14
Good night... Maybe...
A
01:16
Armin
hah, no prob.
Sounds great, If I get it working tonight I'll have a rom dump for you tomorrow.
Cheers,
Y
01:18
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
😳🥳
A
03:36
Armin
getting the same issues when converting from img files. Is there a document describing the floppy format somewhere? I just need the basics to write a flashfloppy config file. so that I can use img files directly in flashfloppy and "disk-utilities"
Y
15:32
YL3AKC
OKay! I'm near computer again. Let's see what is going on.
Y
15:47
YL3AKC
Looks like it is standard floppy
5 1/4 inch double density
360 Kbytes size
2 heads
40 tracks
9 sectors per track
sector size 512 bytes
15:48
I think Kirill had video where he write real floppies for GRiD. I'll try to find and look on floppy writing software settings.
A
15:51
Armin
Yes, that's what i thought as well.

hmm that video would be great, I can write real disks from IMD, HFE, or raw stream files but for some reason it doesn't work when I do that after having them converted from img.
Y
15:52
YL3AKC
hmm... OKay I'll try to read more about disk image formats...
A
15:53
Armin
yeah, same with flashfloppy. it reads my HFE disks fine and boots the compass. but once I convert the same disk image to img the compass gives me checksum errors
Y
15:54
YL3AKC
Can you send working/booting .IMD here? And converted to .IMG, what makes checksum error...
A
15:56
Armin
GRIDOS.IMD
361.8 KB
works, boots straight into ccos
15:56
GRIDOS.img
360.0 KB
Does not work Compass gives checksum errors at boot. even when converting back to IMD
Y
15:57
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Also with Gotek?
What firmware you are using on Gotek? Stock or FlashFloppy?
A
15:58
Armin
In reply to this message
Flashfloppy boots that IMD file on the compass when I convert it into HFE (FF doesnt support IMD)
16:03
I tried lots of different things.
IMD -> HFE : working
IMD -> IMG : not working
IMD -> IMG -> HFE : not working
IMD -> IMG -> IMD -> HFE : Not working

so I can use all the IMD compass software I found online when I convert it into HFE.
But when I want to edit the disks contents I have to convert it into IMG which then somehow breaks the whole chain.
Y
16:08
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
"It's a HACKERMAN Time!"
[80's music in background]
Y
16:35
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Can you also give me working and not working version of HFE image?
👍
A
A
16:41
Armin
The "GRIDOS_IMD_img.hfe" is the one that was first converted to IMG and is giving checksum errors on the Compass
16:50
manual.hfe
981.0 KB
here is one that I tried to manually define all the parameters for when converting from img to hfe, but it still gives me the same checksum error at boot.
16:52
Also, I should mention when I boot from Bubble I can acces the disk and see the contents, but when I try to open a file or format the disk CCOS returns a "104 error" code
Y
17:09
YL3AKC
They are different in size. Lol! Looks like i need to overcome lazyness and dive deep into this...
u
17:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
imd is basically a bit more than a disk image - AFAIK it also contains some low-level formatting metadata
A
17:18
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, That's using the default IBM MFM DSDD profile, It adds 2 blank tracks making the total 42 instead of 40.
But even when I manually define the parameters which results in a file with the exact same size as the original inc. 40 tracks "manual.hfe" it still doesn't work
u
17:19
usernameak
In reply to this message
and 2102 is really picky about that even with its own original drive
A
17:20
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, I think some of this data is lost when I convert into img, I just don't understand what that would prevent making disks
Y
17:20
YL3AKC
Nah... So many work on this, but I am motivated to get that CCPROM dumps! Just need more time to find bugs in other programmer's code...
A
17:23
Armin
In reply to this message
How did you make the disks for dumping your roms?
u
17:23
usernameak
In reply to this message
@Megabozyakorovka do you remember the exact settings?
17:26
In reply to this message
found the options in Kirill's video
👍
Y
A
17:27
Armin
In reply to this message
tnx, but how did you convert back from img to IMD?
u
17:28
usernameak
In reply to this message
from IMD to IMG - with LIBDSK
the other way - i think same?..
A
17:29
Armin
I'll give it a try with real disks, maybe the 2102 is less picky about real disks then with the gotek

could take a while. as I have to dig out a dos machine with dd drive and disks
u
17:30
usernameak
In reply to this message
the specific configuration it wants is basically hardcoded in the controller firmware ;)
A
17:32
Armin
In reply to this message
yeah, but still I am confused. as the hfe Images work, boot and format perfectly on the compass
u
17:33
usernameak
In reply to this message
hfe has that info as well
A
17:33
Armin
maybe I should try my 2107 drive
It uses a different floppy drive although I think the rom is the same as the one in the 2102
Y
17:44
YL3AKC
Sounds like GRiD 2101need some FDD parametr tweak on Gotek... .HFE and .IMD provide these parameters while .IMG is just raw byte data and Gotek do defaults.
17:45
OK, I trying to dive deep into .IMD and .HFE headers to figure out settings.
17:54
In reply to this message
Do you have IMG.cfg file for Gotek?
u
17:54
usernameak
okay, imd has geometry and sector interleaving info and that's it
17:55
the original images have 2/40/9 and non-standard interleaving mode
👍
A
Y
17:55
YL3AKC
Looks like you need to set following:
mode = mfm // this is on by default
rate = 250
A
17:58
Armin
In reply to this message
IMG.CFG
5.7 KB
this is what I've been using to test upto now
Y
17:58
YL3AKC
Reasons to have printer @ work:
No need to worry about dried ing @ home
No need to worry about dust @ home
No need to worry about paper
A
17:59
Armin
In reply to this message
Ok, now I need to somehow get that into the config file. ;)
Y
18:00
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Looks like your .cfg is ok. Only thing to change: rate = 250
u
18:00
usernameak
In reply to this message
hfe is a much more complex format with raw track data
Y
18:00
YL3AKC
Not sure about interleave settings...
A
18:01
Armin
In reply to this message
Ohh yes I was playing around with that last night. I had it at 250 but that did'nt work either
18:10
I asked the Flashfloppy author for help, and he just giot back to me with a config file to test
u
18:11
usernameak
GRIDOS_1.IMD
361.8 KB
btw can you try this one?
A
18:13
Armin
Looking good so far, first time I don't get errors when booting or formatting
u
18:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
that's my image?
A
18:14
Armin
No, sorry that's my image with the img.cfg I got from the flashfloppy author
u
18:14
usernameak
In reply to this message
ah okay
A
18:23
Armin
Ok, So for now everything seems to work great. I can finally boot img files directly.
u
18:23
usernameak
nice!
A
18:24
Armin
here is the flashfloppy img.cfg contents for anyone wondering

[::368640]
cyls = 40
heads = 2
bps = 512
secs = 9
mode = mfm
interleave = 5
id = 1
tracks = 0-39.1
id = 10
u
18:24
usernameak
In reply to this message
yeah, interleave 5 is right
Y
18:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Wondering about "interleave = 5" and NO "rate" parameter
u
18:25
usernameak
In reply to this message
the original images had 1 3 5 7 9 2 4 6 8 interleaving order
18:25
which is interleave = 5
A
18:26
Armin
default rate when unspecified is 250 I think
Y
18:26
YL3AKC
will you test with more .IMD=>.IMG files?
Or you are already trying to dump CCPROM ?
18:26
Anyway! Great work guys! You made it. Looks like .IMG works now!
u
18:27
usernameak
btw for dumping make sure that Programs subject exists on the drive and that you have at least 16k (plus a few more for filesystem structures) free space
👍
A
A
18:31
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, dinner first and then I'll try dump the roms from both of my 1101's and try some more disk images
A
20:15
Armin
In reply to this message
sure what do you want me to test, if it boots?

ill start on the roms now
u
20:16
usernameak
In reply to this message
no more need to test that one
👍
A
A
20:30
Armin
1101 new MB 4.bin
16.0 KB
This is a rom dump from the 1101 with the newer motherboard (version 4)

a quick look confirms the part number
"330000225510--0044"
TT
20:32
T Tron
In reply to this message
Executive on disk is different between models
20:33
I think the late (newer) 1101 uses the 1129 Os because of the video DMA chip
A
20:36
Armin
Those are images I got from Klyball I think, they are not from my machine or disks
20:42
1101 old MB 3.bin
16.0 KB
This is a romdump from the 1101 with the older motherboard (version 3)

this appears to be the same one that we already had
"330000114432--0044"
20:44
Is there a full list of all the disk images that are achived?
Y
20:50
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Not exactly. I have all what I found on internet and put in one folder, but no documentation or metadata.

https://grid.bs0dd.net/index.php?lang=eng&dir=GRiD_disk_images
20:51
In reply to this message
Cool, but I'll check them tomorrow.
21:06
In reply to this message
What is difference between 1101 and 1129 beside RAM size?
u
21:07
usernameak
In reply to this message
ROM sockets, different memory map, some other stuff
21:07
In reply to this message
executive is machine-independent (you can even copy executive from 1139 to 1101 and it'll get proper multitasking (though what's the point on a small screen and 256K ram) )
kernel isn't though
21:10
In reply to this message
there were only three
21:13
1139rom
16.0 KB
aye this one
Y
21:13
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
AHH, yes, ROM sockets... And device map. I forgot it...
u
21:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
... and the new chipset
Y
21:14
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I'll compare chipset par codes later.
21:15
Chipset mostly affecting video buffer and, maybe, DMA.
u
21:15
usernameak
...and probably DRAM refresh and something?
Y
21:16
YL3AKC
DRAM refresh looks mostly the same because of bus logic.
u
21:17
usernameak
1139 also has some rudimentary resolution switching
21:17
and seems to start in 320x240 mode
Y
21:17
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
That's sounds interesting...
u
21:18
usernameak
In reply to this message
i didn't figure out the register which handles that
21:18
so my emulator starts with glitched boot logo
Y
21:18
YL3AKC
Technically 320 and 512 are implemented in 9 bit counter. Actually 320/16 and 512/16 counter and shifter.
21:19
So it can be done with few proprietary PALs and 74 series logic.
21:20
Chipset aggregate this on one die.
u
21:20
usernameak
In reply to this message
the line count is different though
Y
21:21
YL3AKC
240 and 256 are 8 bit counter with different reset taps
u
21:21
usernameak
it's centered on the actual machine btw
Y
21:22
YL3AKC
This make sense when looking on old 1101 main board ICs.
u
21:22
usernameak
found a pic of the bootlogo (which is always in 320x240 mode) on 1139
21:22
so there would be some sort of centering also
Y
21:23
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Here, yes, I saw it also somewhere in files
21:24
In reply to this message
Maybe by additional register settings on ASIC/chipset
u
21:24
usernameak
In reply to this message
or maybe even just with some black magic on display sync signals
Y
21:25
YL3AKC
To find out this, it is necessary to reverse all CCPROM dumps what we have.
u
21:25
usernameak
that's specific to 113x
Y
21:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
But not that hard as it looks...
u
21:25
usernameak
113x also has different RAM map due to bigger framebuffer
Y
21:26
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
CCOS don't care about it too much... 😁
u
21:27
usernameak
In reply to this message
it actually does
21:27
the segments in ROM and the OS kernel are different
Y
21:27
YL3AKC
CCOS only care about 256/512 KB of RAM

I saw it on my emulator while booting
u
21:27
usernameak
In reply to this message
^
21:28
so that it doesn't overlap the framebuffer and overwrite it with garbage
Y
21:28
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Hmm... Maybe... Need to check this detail.
u
21:29
usernameak
In reply to this message
i think 1129 ROM and OS might work (if you put both) on 1139 and vice versa, but you might get broken display output :D
Y
21:29
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
CCPROM simply throw bootloader after framebuffer and after CCPROM RAM data area.
u
21:30
usernameak
In reply to this message
or might not, considering that it starts in 320x240 and then switches to 512x256
21:30
In reply to this message
yep.
21:30
and the address of "after framebuffer" is different ;)
Y
21:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
But, as I know, CCOS don't care about it too much. Maybe...
21:38
@usernameak returning to LD linker story. Do you have some experience with it? Can you teach me some Kung-Fu(rry) in programming?
u
21:39
usernameak
In reply to this message
i tinkered a bit
21:39
didn't go well
Y
21:39
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
The same for me. But I suxx, because I'm not a programmer...
u
21:40
usernameak
In reply to this message
it's an extremely poorly documented thing tbh
Y
21:41
YL3AKC
Yes... 😞
21:43
But coreboot somehow is working. I can use strong russian language to describe how it compile and work... 😁
A
22:08
Armin
In reply to this message
That's interesting, I seem to have a different set of disk images. (they were IMD format so I was able to extract most of the description)
22:09
this is what I have for CCOS software (for the compass, no gridcase stuff)
Y
22:10
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Don't take that collection too seriously. It was quick manual extraction of images.
A
22:10
Armin
And this is all the Compass DOS software I have
22:11
Ohh ok, Well now that I have an easy way of testing disks on my compass I'll try and compile a more complete list.
Y
22:11
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Can you ZIP this and send me, so I can add to my unsorted collection?
A
22:13
Armin
compass sofrtware.zip
13.4 MB
Here you go
Y
22:14
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Cool! Thank you!
22:16
Btw, this is web version of my GRiD folder on my local computer...

Thanks to @Blue_Screen_0f_Death for hosting!

https://grid.bs0dd.net/index.php?lang=eng
🔥
A
A
22:18
Armin
Any way to bypass the password protected folders in CCOS? one of my machines was used by a GRID reseller and has a lot of password protected files and folders
Y
22:21
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Check Kirill's presentation about GRiD file system and you can extract password by looking on disk images.

Also you can try universal password "GRiDiRG" or something similar.

@usernameak what was "universal" password? I don't remember it and don't have access to my GRiD files now...
22:33
In reply to this message
What about following crazy project?

I prepare all necessary software and hardware. Arduino, schematics and test on Guinea pigs (microcontrollers from eBay).

Then you replicate my hardware, desolder keyboard controller and extract firmware from it?
22:34
Because you have experience with soldering, it could be easy for you.
22:35
Btw, I also worked in repair workshop 8 years. I replied professional audio equipment for touring and studios...
A
22:35
Armin
Yeah that wouldn't be a problem, I can do it when I start on the RAM on mine, Schouldn't take more than a couple of minutes
Y
22:36
YL3AKC
So, I am not programer and understand you really good...
22:37
I learned C/C++ by thinkering Arduino...
A
22:37
Armin
well I was mainly talking about dumping the keyboard controller for now.
22:38
But the rest should also be a doable I think.
Y
22:42
YL3AKC
Yes, I need some time to develop good 24 volt switches controlled by Arduino Uno or Arduino mega and write code without bugs. I don't want to ruin keyboard controller.
22:43
Also we need to poke @Megabozyakorovka so he start to repair his 1129 and finish floppy emulator.
A
22:45
Armin
the controller is an intel d8741a right? Yeah I'll do some searching as well for a way to read those. my TL866 definitely won't do those
Y
22:48
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, D8741. It need 24 volts for programming/verification.

I saw lot of these microcontrollers on eBay. I'll take them and use as Guinea pigs to debug hardware and software for Arduino based programmer/dumper.
22:50
Old Intel chips, I am your Freddie Crugger and nightmare! You will die in a name of science and GRiD preservation!
u
22:51
usernameak
In reply to this message
there was a master password hardcoded into the OS
22:52
GRiDiRG i think
👍
A
TT
22:52
T Tron
In reply to this message
Derp. Meant the CCOS file or whatever
Y
23:01
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I always want you ask personal question: are you Klyball or no?
A
23:01
Armin
I found a local listing for an old "MQP Electronics EPROM Programmer 200"
that should support the D7841
lets see what the guy wants for it
and if I can find some software for it
TT
23:02
T Tron
No. Klyball is a guy about 3h north of me in bc. He is a carpenter actually.
Y
23:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Well? What about 100% D.IY. with standard 24V PSU?
TT
23:02
T Tron
He is a good guy
Y
23:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, he is!
23:03
In reply to this message
Hmm... Stagehand for movie production?
TT
23:03
T Tron
Cabinets I think?
A
23:04
Armin
In reply to this message
sure why not, but I could actually use another programmer for some of the older IC's that my newer programmer doesn't support
TT
23:05
T Tron
I manage an Arm cpu product line for a living but don’t do any real engineering anymore.
23:05
That’s why hacking on GRiD and junk is fun!
Y
23:07
YL3AKC
Dam it! I am audio, video, electronics and satellite uplink engineer and can't afford GRiD on eBay. I need to move to U.S and A. and become millionaire. And continue to reverse GRiD.
🔥
TT
TT
23:12
T Tron
I got them all when they were still cheap 8 years ago
23:13
I am in Seattle btw
Y
23:13
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
You are really lucky man!
TT
23:14
T Tron
Rain and darkness land
23:14
Sometimes they still pop up here in the us for $400-600 usd
23:15
So, kinda pricey but not eBay pricey
ВЗ
23:15
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
What’s worse is that you can’t afford... the only thing you can’t buy at all.  I can't find a flex for the 9110 for sale on eBay. The two that I have are damaged☠.
TT
23:15
T Tron
In reply to this message
I probably have one
23:15
Somewhere
23:15
Remind me
23:17
I bought a job lot of 9110 from the UK some years ago
23:17
Geode 486!
23:18
I am getting on a plane again but if you nag me toward end of month I can probably dig it out from one with other issues
ВЗ
23:19
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
Otherwise it seems to be quite working (without soft-buttons). Only it’s in French (and I don’t understand it at all). I was able to flash CMT with a flasher, but for PDA I need a compatible (no more than 8 MB) MMC card. They are also not easy to find.
23:19
In reply to this message
Y
23:19
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
30 USD and some time PCB development for student is Ok? Rest will be done by cheeneeze!
TT
23:20
T Tron
In reply to this message
I can probably find one of those too
ВЗ
23:22
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
PCB?
Y
23:24
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes. It is possible to make flexible PCBs in china. This is what you need for flex cable restoration.
23:25
Only problem is to measure and design it.
11 January 2024
A
00:02
Armin
In reply to this message
Thanks, that seemed to do the trick.
Unfortunately there wasn't anything interesting on there.
Y
05:27
YL3AKC
Looks like CCPROM on old and new 1101 compasses are almost the same.

:~/Desktop/GRiD_stuff/ROM_DUMPS/convetional_memories$ colordiff <(hexdump -C 1101\ old\ MB\ 3.bin) <(hexdump -C 1101\ new\ MB\ 4.bin)
66c66
< 00000410  18 c6 06 06 00 18 b8 e0  df 8e d8 c6 06 00 00 00  |................|
---
> 00000410  18 c6 06 06 00 18 b8 e1  df 8e d8 c6 06 00 00 00  |................|
558c558
< 000022d0  33 33 30 30 30 30 31 31  34 34 33 32 2d 2d 30 30  |330000114432--00|
---
> 000022d0  33 33 30 30 30 30 32 32  35 35 31 30 2d 2d 30 30  |330000225510--00|
935a936,939
> 00003c00  fa b8 e0 df 8e c0 b0 00  26 a2 00 00 26 a2 02 00  |........&...&...|
> 00003c10  26 a2 04 00 ea 21 04 01  fc 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |&....!..........|
> 00003c20  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
> *
952c956
< 00003ff0  ea 21 04 01 fc 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |.!..............|
---
> 00003ff0  ea 00 00 c0 ff 00 00 00  00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00  |................|
05:39
That mean:
ASIC on new board (V4) for 1101 is simply cost reduction replacement for PALs on old board(V3).
05:51
Conclusion: we only need to reverse 1101 old (V3) main board schematics and PALs to replicate ASIC in all compasses (1100 - 1129) with 320x240 displays.
🔥
A
A
18:58
Armin
Not Compass related, but does anyone happen to have more documentation on the GRiDcase 12xx series (GRiDcase and GRiDcase Plus) ?
I'm specifically looking for info on the external 50pin expansion connector.
Y
19:23
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yeah, I have only time and enegry for COmpass now, but not for Case... :(

50 pin? That ISA connector behind battery?
A
19:24
Armin
That's on the 15xx series. The 12xx series has an external 50pin dsub expansion connector
Y
19:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Interesting... No info about it? For what functionality/peripherals is used 50 pin connector?
A
19:28
Armin
There were a whole series of expansions for that. Including FDD's, HDD's, ISA expansion box. Etc..
Y
19:30
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Hmm. Could be 8-bit ISA slot? DO you have any peripheral for that connector? Ideally ISA expansion box. Or, at least, PCB photos for box.
A
19:32
Armin
Only very low resolution pictures of the ISA box
Y
19:32
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's better than nothing... Can you show?
A
19:34
Armin
Top part is the interface board, bottom is an ISA HDD controller
Y
19:38
YL3AKC
Looks like few glue logic and PALs on interface board. Need real thing for reversing...
19:38
50 pin connector looks like something similar to ISA bus, but incomplete.
A
19:56
Armin
It definitely contains the 8bit ISA bus but it might be multiplexed.
There was also an interface card to use it with an ibm 5161 expansion unit.
So it probably has enough to support the full ISA bus
Y
20:00
YL3AKC
What hardware you have for this GriDCase?
A
20:19
Armin
I don't have any expansions for them, that's why I'd love to make some
Y
20:57
YL3AKC
This make things harder to rebuild...
A
20:59
Armin
In reply to this message
I know, that's why I was hoping someone would have some more info.
I tried tracing on the motherboard, but between bus transceivers pals and the multilayered pcb I gave up for now
21:01
I'll try reaching out to the 2 people online that have ISA expansions again. But convincing them to loan or sell the hardware probably won't work.
Y
21:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
What about hi Res photos?
21:03
Btw, @Megabozyakorovka , what about hi Res photos from 1129?
A
21:05
Armin
In reply to this message
I'll try, ;)
12 January 2024
YL
10:17
Yuri S. Leskovec
In reply to this message
I have one like this
👍
A
Y
10:17
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Can you make high resolution photos of PCBs?
YL
10:19
Yuri S. Leskovec
Кажется там особые болты чтобы разобрать корпус, звездочка или 6гр
Y
12:03
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Получится разобрать?
YL
12:12
Yuri S. Leskovec
Попробую
👍
Y
A
12:17
Armin
In reply to this message
That's great,
A couple of questions.
What laptop did it come on? Gridcase or Gridcase plus?
Does it work?
Is it bootable? Or does it require an option rom to be installed in the Gridcase?

Asking this because the Gridcase EXP I have doesn't boot option roms installed on ISA cards.

Thanks
большое спасибо
👍
YL
13 January 2024
YL
19:49
Yuri S. Leskovec
DSC_0969.JPG
8.1 MB
🔥
A
19:50
Y
20:08
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Nice one! Thank you!
14 January 2024
A
00:42
Armin
In reply to this message
Thank you very much for the pictures.
this helps clear up some things.

Unfortunately this doesn't look like something I'll be able to recreate without some hands on time, especially with those PALs.
I guess that means this project will be on hold until I can lay my hands on one.

@leskovezzz Well, If you ever consider selling it or loaning it out, you know where to find me. ;)
I would also completely understand if you don't.

Thanks for the help.
👍
YL
Y
01:10
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
PALs can be reversed, but you need schematics for PCB...

That external connection to GridCase looks kinda proprietary. It has two GPiB transceiver buffers 75ls160
01:13
Looks like when GRiD guys build interface, they inspired from GPiB...
A
01:34
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, Unfortunately. I was hoping it would be more similar to the IBM 5161 receiver cards, Because we do have schematics for those.
Y
01:39
YL3AKC
This looks like some kind of 16 bit bus/connector. Probably it is breakout bus for CPU I/O address space.
01:44
@ConventionalMemories do you have BIOS dump from your GridCase? Reversing BIOS can help with understanding expansion connector stuff.
👍
A
01:46
Even more, we can build PC XT based emulator and try to run dumped BIOS code and see what BIOS is doing.
A
01:47
Armin
In reply to this message
I don't have one from mine, but there is one on archive.org
https://archive.org/details/gridcase327c256biosodd
01:49
Idk, it might even help with CCOS reverse engineering. the 12xx series can boot CCOS natively, no integrid required
01:50
2 of mine have CCOS in ROM
Y
01:50
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Dohh! Sounds like I need to write it and do reversing...
01:52
In reply to this message
Hmm, that sounds interesting.

Even when I only need to finish tms9914 emulation for working compass 1101.
01:53
In reply to this message
So, you have GridCase 3? Is it 8086 computer?
u
01:55
usernameak
also nope my rom dumping tool won't properly work with gridcases
01:56
will probably give a partial dump
A
01:56
Armin
Yes all GRIDcase 12xx series are 8086+8087 4.77Mhz
u
01:56
usernameak
In reply to this message
it expects a 16K rom and i think... gridcase has more?
A
01:57
Armin
In reply to this message
yess, 64k total, 2x 32k
Y
01:58
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
To my knowledge it is compatible with XP, so, we can use XT architecture as starting point for case 3
u
01:59
usernameak
In reply to this message
i mean, in XT the ROM is located at the same place (the end of address space, because that's how 8086 boots - it starts at 0xFFFF0), but it's bigger, at 64k
Y
02:01
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
2x 32k according to archive org
👍
A
A
02:01
Armin
In reply to this message
I have the gridcase 4, 2 plus, 3 plus, and EXP
The only difference between the number at the end is the display type.
1 and 2 are two different LCD types
3 is gas plasma
4 is EL
u
02:01
usernameak
In reply to this message
that checks out - two 8-bit-wide-bus 32k roms
A
02:01
Armin
In reply to this message
ohh, yes my mistake
Y
02:02
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Archive also have keyboard controller dump...?
A
02:03
Armin
In reply to this message
Yess, also same link
Y
02:03
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, it is.
u
02:04
usernameak
In reply to this message
> are two different LCD types
the early LCDs were nasty as hell ;)
Y
02:05
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Do you have hires photos of case 3 main board? Maybe I can spot something interesting regarding chips ...
A
02:05
Armin
I should have somewhere, give me a sec...
Y
02:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Personal question: why you are not sleeping at night?
u
02:09
usernameak
In reply to this message
neither are we ;)
👍
A
Y
02:10
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Tomorrow (actually today) I have a holiday ...
A
02:10
Armin
In reply to this message
Yeah, I keep asking myself that, Not much time in the day for personal stuff and hobbies, between work, studies and family.
plus It's nice at night, not much distraction. I've become pretty good at functioning with minimal sleep. ;)
Y
02:13
YL3AKC
Sounds like you both are below 24 yo.

On 12th I got my 41st year ...
TT
02:14
T Tron
In reply to this message
Happy birthday!!!!!
02:15
I’m 33 so… old ish
u
02:15
usernameak
In reply to this message
you're not wrong about me
Y
02:15
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Thanks!
A
02:15
Armin
In reply to this message
Congrats,
02:15
Not below 24, but 26 so pretty close
u
02:16
usernameak
i'm the youngest one here
02:16
hehe
02:16
19
TT
02:16
T Tron
@YL3AKC we are so oooooold
Y
02:18
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Thanks! Best present what I got for myself: holiday from work, so got free time and programmed GPiB wired or logic emulation, so, 1 small step forward for GRiD 1101 emulator.
🔥
A
A
02:19
Armin
In reply to this message
Well, I still have some computers that are older, and we manage to keep them running like they were new. ;)
Y
02:21
YL3AKC
Now I can attach to virtual GPiB bus, logger, virtual tms9914 and floppy drive, Kirill's GPiB dumps, etc whatever I want.
A
02:23
Armin
Found some MB pictures from both the Gridcase and gridcase plus
Y
02:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Graveyard of ICs...
02:26
Where is connected 50 pin connector on PCB?
A
02:27
Armin
In reply to this message
yess, that, combined with the the multilayered PCB is why I gave up tracing the expansion port a couple of years ago
02:27
I should have a paper somewhere with the parts that I managed to trace
02:28
In reply to this message
On two of those flat flex connectors, let me check which ones
02:38
It's connected to these 2 connectors
02:39
(only the pair on the left, the right 2 are serial and parallel I think)
Y
02:40
YL3AKC
Any info on square ASICs?
A
02:49
Armin
In reply to this message
No, I'm afraid I don't
Y
02:56
YL3AKC
Hah. I just found info. It's Nat Semi GAL/early FPGA. Could be hard to reverse.
A
03:00
Armin
20220129_165411.jpg
3.0 MB
Hmm I just took a look at the pictures from my gridcase EXP which is missing the expansion connector. and this might actually show a bit better what IC's are missing as well
ВЗ
03:01
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
rather I'm
Y
03:03
YL3AKC
Other unrelated, but, maybe, useful info: on 1990ties I had Commodore PC-20 III with 20 MB HDD from WD. It had preATA 8 bit interface connected via bidirectional buffer to ISA bus. Thanks to Adrian Black (Adrian Digital Basement) video about old HDDs. Now I know that these type of HDDs needed own firmware to be accessible by MS DOS. This firmware (driver) program, call it whatever you want) is located in BIOS.
03:05
So, there is chance that we can find some stuff for expansion connector/bus in BIOS code.
03:05
We just need to dig deeper.
A
03:06
Armin
In reply to this message
That would be great, if possible. I also wonder If the HDD was accessible from CCOS, I assume it was.
Y
03:06
YL3AKC
@usernameak is an expert in reverse engineering. Maybe he already started BIOS reverse engineering with IDA right now... 😉
u
03:07
usernameak
In reply to this message
well, not so expert, that title would go to Kirill :)
Y
03:08
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Can you look on GridCase BIOS?
A
03:08
Armin
Well, any help would be appreciated. But don't let me distract you guys from the Compass. ;)
Gridcase can wait.
u
03:08
usernameak
In reply to this message
i'm tired today
A
03:10
Armin
In reply to this message
Me too, so on that note I'm going to log off for today. Cheers,
Y
03:10
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It all goes in parallel. These GridCase internals looks so crazy, that it gain my interest on GridCase...
03:11
In reply to this message
Good night!
👍
A
03:13
Maybe @Blue_Screen_0f_Death or @exlmoto can try dive into GridCase BIOS reverse engineering rabbit hole? I'll also try, but later...
Y
13:57
YL3AKC
@ConventionalMemories
13:57
Y
15:18
YL3AKC
@ConventionalMemories What screen resolutions have GRiDCase laptops?
ВЗ
15:20
Владислав Задорожкин
In reply to this message
640х200?
Y
15:21
YL3AKC
Maybe... Looking in source codes.
BASE address for video buffer 0xB8000
A
17:15
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, correct 12xx series all have 640x200 1bpp displays
TT
21:42
T Tron
GRiD is stupid
21:42
Just collect Macs instead
😱
A
Y
22:09
YL3AKC
Mac is for sissies, GRiD is for men.
15 January 2024
Y
05:30
YL3AKC
Kinda, like this...

Need to code GRiDCase video adapter (currenty using CGA as template).
Add exception for accessing to unknown Memory and I/O Address space for debug.

Emulator sometimes is useful for BIOS hacking, even if you are not planning to write emulator for emulating old computer.
Y
05:55
YL3AKC
test.log
163.0 KB
I/O and memory access log while running GRiDCase BIOS in emulator.
Y
06:16
YL3AKC
Thanks to Yuri for gadget's internal photos. Looks like it is some kind HDD controller made by Western Digital 8 bit ISA card. Gadget definitely convert expansion slot signals to 8 bit ISA with 2x PALs, 2x 8 bit latches, 2x BUS tranceivers (the same as fir GRiB data bus) and kinda simple glue logic.
06:17
On GRiDCase side there are 4x 75hc160 trancevers, probably for 16 bit bus support.
👍
A
06:20
I assume that expansion connector activates when there is access by CPU to I/o address space. Maybe whole XT address space (0x000 - 0x3FF) or even more up to 0xFFF, because I observed in log file when GRiDCase BIOS access port 0x831
06:22
And still not researched where are I/O registers for GRiDCase video card.
A
16:04
Armin
20210429_123258.jpg
987.2 KB
Here's a picture of the Gridcase's video card, Interesting that it also has a ROM on there, A normal IBM compatible CGA card wouldn't need a video bios, unlike EGA/VGA
Y
17:08
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Well... Yes, but... VideoBIOS is a bridge between int10h api and hardware details. Yes, CGA is kinda simple and video api is in main BIOS code, but, EGA/VGA is so complicated and can be different between vendos, so each vendor write own VideoBIOS.

Looks like the same is true for GRiDCase.

But... It is strange that somehow I saw text when run GRiDCase BIOS with attached CGA card and CGA font. That concludes: GRidCase video card is similar to CGA.
Y
17:31
YL3AKC
So, anybody want to continue GRiDCase experiments and write GRiDCase emulator?

@exlmoto How about you? As I know you have experience and knowledge with MS DOS and IBM PC XT architecture...
E
18:06
EXL
In reply to this message
Heh, I'm currently deep into porting Doom to P2K platform.
18:06
18:06
18:06
18:06
18:07
It is not yet known whether it will work or not
21 January 2024
Y
02:15
YL3AKC
I am in process writing Compass 1101 CPROM source code. It will be exact binary copy of original.
So far 4.8 or 16 Kb are done.

It is written with Flat Assembler fork called fasmg
Still lot of things need to be done. Remove hacks, add structures, comment and formatting cleanup.
👍
A
02:17
Whole folder with fasmg for linux, makefile and additional include files are here:
https://grid.bs0dd.net/index.php?lang=eng&dir=tmp%2Fccprom_1101_src
23 January 2024
Y
17:19
YL3AKC
Dohh! Finished 1101 CCPROM asm source code.

So many gibberish and hacks with multi segment code, that I lost tracking what is going on.
Y
18:05
YL3AKC
compass_1101_rev4_rev3_CCPROM_difference.txt
2.8 KB
Regarding 1101 Main Board revision 4 CCPROM...
It has tiny difference in Serial port/PAL initialization.
18:17
Interesting things:
Whole code is identical, except one byte, where accessing PAL device address: old:0xE0 vs new:0xE1

And new CCPROM is simply patched with minimal additional code in free space in ROM.

And, of course, ROM chip part numbers changed.
27 January 2024
Y
15:55
YL3AKC
From now CCPROM source code is on github:
https://github.com/JDat/GRiD_Compass_1101_CCPROM_source
👍
A
28 January 2024
GRiD Compass started voice chat
Y
13:29
YL3AKC
Hello everyone!
13:29
Spontaneous stream
Y
14:40
YL3AKC
Guys! IF you have time you can also join to video conversation!
GRiD Compass started voice chat (12993 seconds)
Y
17:06
YL3AKC
Thanks Armin! That was nice conversation!
👍
A
17:07
pins1.txt
2.0 KB
Some work what we done via video call
A
17:08
Armin
Thank you. Next up tracing the RAM.
👍
Y
17:09
And hopefully I can dump the KBC next week.
🔥
Y
Y
17:09
YL3AKC
Yessss! DRAM + DRAM buffers + DRAM multiplexers
17:11
GRiD_EagleCAD_v7.7.zip
282.2 KB
All EagleCAD schematics/PCBs/Component Library related to GRiD
GRiD Compass started voice chat
Y
17:41
YL3AKC
Another spontaneous video.

Updating GRiD schematics
GRiD Compass started voice chat (4255 seconds)
Y
19:22
YL3AKC
@leskovezzz Можете помочь? Нужен GRiDовский номер Микросхемы U101 PAL16R4. Она находится возле контроллера клавиатуры. Там есть цифры 300ххх-00 Не понятно какие цифры под ххх. Вроде 123? Или нечто другое?
Y
19:55
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
@ConventionalMemories EagleCAD files are now on web server.
I made corrections on CPU and RAM schematics according to today's research.

https://grid.bs0dd.net/tmp/GRiD_EagleCAD_v7.7.zip
👍
A
30 January 2024
Y
07:31
YL3AKC
T What do you think? Great work from @ConventionalMemories !
TT
07:31
T Tron
Goddamn
07:31
Well done!
Y
07:31
YL3AKC
We only just started...
07:33
But... We are still ignoring your favorite peripheral: UART + support chips... It will come later.
07:33
image_2024-01-30_08-33-31.png
189.8 KB
Bubble memory, also later...
07:35
T Can there be negative reaction if this goes open source? Maybe some GRiD collectors be unhappy? What do you think?

What @leskovezzz thing about open source schematics for GRiD 1101 main board?
TT
07:36
T Tron
lol this is original RE work?
07:36
Fuck the haters, should be public imo
07:36
Reverse engineered schematics are well established as something there can be no legitimate copyright claim to either I believe
Y
07:36
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes. Armin is beeping traces on 1101 Rev3, I am doing support work and trying to see A Big Picture.
u
07:37
usernameak
In reply to this message
oh cool
Y
07:39
YL3AKC
Still no reaction about CCPROM (BIOS dump) source code on vcfed forum... Only Armin gave Like. 👍😊
So far, so good that there is no negative reaction in forum.
TT
07:40
T Tron
Compass is not radioactive like lisp machines etc
Y
07:42
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
07:50
YL
08:02
Yuri S. Leskovec
In reply to this message
Я поддерживаю всё что вы делаете👍
Y
14:26
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Спасибо!
A
15:05
Armin
I don't see why there would be any negativity against a reverse engeneered schematic. I also don't think it would affect the value of the Compass.
Y
15:11
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Some collectioners may see this as attempt to clone GRiD and reduce price and exclusiveness of original GRiD...

Nobody knows what they are thinking...
A
16:38
Armin
In reply to this message
Well if people really collect the Compass's for their "exclusivity" I don't think I really care what those people think. :)
I like collecting them as well, but not for their value, it's about their features and their place in history.
If anything it would be nice if they dropped in value, I'd love for more people to get their hands on one. but I'm afraid that if there is more interest in the Compass even if it is trough schematics or software development, it might actually drive up the demand and value :(
u
16:41
usernameak
In reply to this message
to be fair i know one case where that actually drove the prices up
16:41
:)
31 January 2024
A
17:32
Armin
1109 ROM.bin
16.0 KB
Good news, managed to convince the friend with the 1109 to make a Romdump.
@YL3AKC looks very similar to the 1101 MB4 ROM, but there are some differences
Y
17:40
YL3AKC
Wow! This is interesting... Even if I am now on arduino USB project hack for work.

I'll check later. Tomorrow is holiday for me...
A
17:42
Armin
Also had a version of wordstar for dos on the compass in bubble.
is there a backup of that already?
Y
17:43
YL3AKC
Maybe no backup. Better to make one!
A
17:44
Armin
yes Ill ask, I only have LOTUS and KERMIT for dos on the compass
Y
18:24
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Looks like minor changes in Bubble/GPiB or Os boot task code.
Y
18:43
YL3AKC
Looks like you really can upgrade 1101 rev4 to 1109 by applaying necessary bodge wires.
A
19:22
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes, that would be awesome. But that's for when I'm done with the rev3 1101
Y
19:25
YL3AKC
actually after rev4
👍
A
Y
20:40
YL3AKC
Sounds like I need to make source code for 1101 rev4 and 1109 CCPROM.
1 February 2024
Y
09:33
YL3AKC
A
Armin 01.02.2024 00:53:25
just found out that there is actually a way to reset the compass by keyboard combination
09:33
CODE + SHIFT + CTRL (on left side) and - (minus)
A
09:45
Armin
I just tested it and although it does work in both GRID OS and MS DOS it seems to be a "soft reset"
It only starts to work partway trough the bootup process
Y
09:46
YL3AKC
Interesting how it works? Is it hardware stuff or CCPROM involved?
09:47
So far it sounds like hardware stuff.

This can explain why capacitor C34 (or whatever number) is close to keyboard controller....
u
09:48
usernameak
In reply to this message
i haven't seen anything like that in the ROM
A
09:49
Armin
Well, it does only work after starting either Grid os or DOS.
At the "boot screen" where you select between HDD FDD or bubble it does not work.
09:51
So my guess is that it is in software not in ccprom.
Y
09:53
YL3AKC
What CCPROM is doing upt to run boot loader?

Of source 1st thing is to initialise system.
Clear video RAM, setup some variables in RAM. I call it CCPROM data area, similar to PC BIOS data area.

Then init intreeupt controller and timer. Init other hardware a little bit.
Then setup memory management, yes memory management is done by CCPROM and not GRiD OS.
Then CPROM initialise multitasking. Yeah! Real multitasking without OS!
Then start 2 tasks: idle task and os boot task.

Os boot task wait 1 second for keypress to decide from where to boot.
Actually Osboot task install keyboard handler and wait 1 second using task management instead of dumb polling keyboard.
09:54
Nothing regarding booting or rebooting in CCPROM.
u
09:54
usernameak
In reply to this message
does Shift+Ctrl+- and Shift+Ctrl+/ have the same effect?
09:55
In reply to this message
because according to the docs they have identical keycodes
Y
09:55
YL3AKC
And in CCPROM there is nothing regarding "warm boot".
09:55
In reply to this message
I don't know. Need to ask Armin...
A
09:56
Armin
In reply to this message
Hmm let's try
Y
09:56
YL3AKC
Scenario 1: keyboard controller push RESET line for system, but we cant see "warm boot" code in CCPROM...

Scenario 2: It happens in GRiD OS/ GRiD MS DOS. OS call rutine, who reloads boot sector and execute it... Maybe...
09:58
I need more complicated debugger for my GRiD emulator...
10:00
Maybe Keyboard handler in Osboot task have some secrets...
A
10:03
Armin
I tried some different keyboard combinations but nothing works except for code,shift,ctrl,-
u
10:03
usernameak
interesting then
A
10:05
Armin
Maybe the keyboard controller rom could help figure it out. The reset line runs right next to it.
10:06
Almost ready to dump that one. Just finished building the programmer. Still need to test it and desolder the kbc
Y
10:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Interesnting on what pin on KBC reset line is conneted...
10:07
In reply to this message
What about spare chips? Hope you will test programmer on them before reading real KBC...
A
10:08
Armin
In reply to this message
Should have some to test with.
Y
10:11
YL3AKC
I saw 3 ICs for 10 EUR on ebay... Hope they are not fake.
10:15
Strange part number on label... Remind me something...
u
10:15
usernameak
In reply to this message
i feel like i saw a similar part number before...