GRiD Compass
Previous messages
🔥
❤
👍
👍
❤
🔥
😍
❤
❤
🔥
🔥
👍
🔥
🔥
🔥
https://www.attend.com.tw/en/news.php?act=view&id=131
well, let's hope they're not lying
Next messages
31 July 2024
u
10:12
usernameak
we need something more bassy because 16kHz :)
Y
10:12
YL3AKC
Something from Alien II ?
u
10:14
usernameak
also we definitely need a hard drive emulator at this point :)
Y
10:15
YL3AKC
BTW, while "worked hard" on main job, I wrote 8051 decompiler. Getting C code on output.
u
10:15
usernameak
In reply to this message
fun fact but the song from the iconic video is not the original song but rather a cover
Y
10:15
YL3AKC
Still have problems with uderstandit BIT addressing but...
10:16
https://web.archive.org/web/20230803074210/http://www.intel-vintage.info/intelotherresources.htm#889713809
App note AP-70 looks like good reading to understand how BIT addressing works.
App note AP-70 looks like good reading to understand how BIT addressing works.
u
10:17
usernameak
In reply to this message
original one was a MIDI track designed to play on Yamaha YM2608 chip (it was a part of a game for NEC PC-98 - another PC-incompatible x86-based platform)
Y
Y
17:28
YL3AKC
What if...
We remove 19 pin serial connector on Compass.
Make custom wiring (minimum soldering, no electronics) and use DE-15 (VGA) connector instead?
We remove 19 pin serial connector on Compass.
Make custom wiring (minimum soldering, no electronics) and use DE-15 (VGA) connector instead?
1 August 2024
TT
02:57
T Tron
In reply to this message
The DTMF from the modem is the only thing that can come from the speaker
Y
05:46
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I'll check it soon. There are 2 DACs, but I don't know how to control them and where goes outputs. Looks like they can be controlled via D8255.
Y
11:32
YL3AKC
Looks like both DACs can be addressed directly. D8255 not involved.
11:32
But I can't figure out chain between DACs and speaker.
11:33
Can't find datasheet for SN99121P3 DIP-8 IC 😞
11:34
So, DAC output voltage can be set by simply write 8 bit value to 0xDFxxx (don't remember exact modem address).
19 August 2024
Y
13:33
YL3AKC
Hello! Just returned from vacation. 😞
13:33
While at work, can do anything with Compass hardware. 😞
13:34
Playing with 8051 firmware from 2102 FDD...
13:35
What I can tell so far.
GPiB handling is realiset in "main loop()" Background task what loops forever and waits request from Compass. Them parse something in various subrutines.
GPiB handling is realiset in "main loop()" Background task what loops forever and waits request from Compass. Them parse something in various subrutines.
13:37
Slowly start seeing how GPiB bitbang is implemented in 8051...
13:51
"Stack overflow!"
13:52
Strange way to compact code inside 8051...
Calling part of code, but not returning correctly, instead it is using another jump/goto
Spaghetti code...
Calling part of code, but not returning correctly, instead it is using another jump/goto
Spaghetti code...
29 August 2024
Y
12:11
YL3AKC
That moment...
12:14
When you write code for fast microcontroller (Raspberry Pi Pico), optimize every calculation and RAM byte, like it is Intel 4004 with 1K Code ROM and 64 bytes of RAM for variables...
10 September 2024
Y
18:08
YL3AKC
Found some junk at work...
18:09
18:09
18:10
Display remind me something familiar...
18:10
Hope I'll own this junk soon...
14 September 2024
u
Y
11:11
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Looks like it is! Not disassembled yet. Need confirmation that I can bring it home.
It also have fancy buttons: 64x32 LCD on every button. RGB backlight. Sounds like a jobby for arduino...
It also have fancy buttons: 64x32 LCD on every button. RGB backlight. Sounds like a jobby for arduino...
11:14
And also I want that Sony anycast station. That device can take compisite/s-video/firewire/VGA sources and output composite/VGA signal.
Also can stream via ethernet... In 320x240 RealMeadia format... 😃
Also can stream via ethernet... In 320x240 RealMeadia format... 😃
11:15
Add RealMeadia to H.264 transcoder (Raspberry Pi 4 + ffmpeg) and stream on Youtube/twitch!
11:20
In reply to this message
Viewable Display pixel size is within +/- 2 mm compared to GRiD 1101. Measures with ruler. Not sure about resolution.
11:34
And then there is Youtube...
11:34
Not watched yet, but...
16 September 2024
Y
07:34
Need some tweaking with microcontroller or shifter logic and we can run this with GRiD.
07:34
Pixel size is almost the same.
18 September 2024
u
Y
05:42
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, it is! But need additional electronics to covert 1-bit stream to 4-bits stream. Can be done with counter/divider by 4 like 74HC293 and shift register like famous 74HC595 and some logic gates.
05:44
Also can be done with modern MCU.
05:45
And as bonus, that device (video replay controller) have five SA6432 RGB backlight button with integrated 64x32 LCD
05:45
24 September 2024
A
03:49
Armin
In reply to this message
That looks like a nice display. Only a small bit larger than the original.
Have you done any r.e. on the display signals?
Have you done any r.e. on the display signals?
03:50
Btw.
Anyone know what program/ demo this is?
Anyone know what program/ demo this is?
Y
05:40
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Hi! That display is only few millimeters smaller than original. I mean view are. On backtage side, it is definitely smaller because of moder componets.
05:42
Well I take break in Compass research ans switched on vintage video production stuff from mid 2000-th. Analog video etc.
👍
A
05:42
But I can switch to Compass display research if this is urgent.
05:45
In reply to this message
I am trying tu run Matrox G550 video card on lubuntu 24.04, but... no success yet. This is needed to connect with Sony Anycast station AWS-G500
05:47
In reply to this message
Display have different electrical singalling.
Original: 1 bit serial data
Obtained: 4 bit semi parallel data.
To run obtained display, need some converter. This can be done with 74HC series ICs or CPLD/FPGA or with modern and fast microcontroller.
Original: 1 bit serial data
Obtained: 4 bit semi parallel data.
To run obtained display, need some converter. This can be done with 74HC series ICs or CPLD/FPGA or with modern and fast microcontroller.
A
14:06
Armin
In reply to this message
I assume the rest of the signaling is the same on both displays? Vsync, Hsync and pixelclock or something like that.
Y
14:39
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, but... 4 data lines instead of 1 data line. With one pixel clock screen captures 4 pixels at the same time. So pixel clock can be 4 times slower, but need 4 lines. In theory converting can be done with famous 74HC595 shift register (hello arduinists!), and some kind of counter/divider by 4 (another 74HC chip). But, as always, lot of small details with counter reset, new pixel clock, shift register shifting, unloading, resetting, correct signal edge etc.
A
14:45
Armin
So 1bit serial on the original. That's interesting. Would also be easy to capture with something like the rgb2hdmi project. I'm pretty sure that would work to add Hdmi out without any additional hw.
Y
14:51
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
According to original data sheet, yes, it is 1 bit! Also visual inspection show that on signal connector there are 10 wires, 5 twisted pairs:
1. pixel clock
2. pixel data
3. H SYNC
4. V Sync
5. Speaker
If I remember correctly...
1. pixel clock
2. pixel data
3. H SYNC
4. V Sync
5. Speaker
If I remember correctly...
A
15:12
Armin
You have a datasheet for the original display??
Y
15:16
As we spoke earlier, I will not go into Display assy. Maximums what I'll do: figure out wiring and connector pinout on Compass main board side. I already opened display assy, saw that fragile madness on flexPCBs. It is better to not touch anything!
👍
A
A
15:28
Armin
In reply to this message
Not the same panel. But similar enough.
AFAIK grid had these custom made by sharp. But LJ320U21 looks like a similar panal.
AFAIK grid had these custom made by sharp. But LJ320U21 looks like a similar panal.
Y
A
16:37
Armin
In reply to this message
Have you seen this demo before? I remember seeing it somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.
Y
16:43
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Maybe... In photos from @leskovezzz on his mysterious HDD. We don't have dump yet. 😞
16:45
Btw... I (re)started messing with PAGERS! Now it's trendy!
A
17:17
Armin
In reply to this message
Found this on this insanely priced listing
https://m.avito.ru/krasnodar/noutbuki/grid_compass_1101_samyy_pervyy_noutbuk_1982g_4203280906
"I will also consider exchanging it for a new TESLA Model X."
Lol
https://m.avito.ru/krasnodar/noutbuki/grid_compass_1101_samyy_pervyy_noutbuk_1982g_4203280906
"I will also consider exchanging it for a new TESLA Model X."
Lol
Y
17:33
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's @Megabozyakorovka video. And probably screenshots from his video. @Megabozyakorovka lives in Saint-Peterburg. Need to ask him about real/fake offer regarding this listing.
17:34
Need to watch his videos again. Maybe Kirill had access to demo some time ago...
17:37
Run time: 2.5 hours for all 4 videos.
A
17:44
Armin
Those pictures are more recent than that video. So maybe it's a real listing. Not just screenshots date on the compass displays 30sep 24
Y
17:50
I don't know... Too much similar photos from video... And 5.25" floppies are the same...
17:51
But, maybe, I am just too suspicious... I will watch this video again later.
u
17:53
usernameak
In reply to this message
wait, isn't that seller the original owner of this specific machine?
17:53
lmao
Y
u
17:55
so it is probably him
Y
17:58
YL3AKC
17:58
Fixed on last weekend...
17:58
H1000 aka OMP
18:00
99 000 EUR (9 900 000 rubles) for Compass 1101 ? Hmm...
ВЗ
A
20:28
Armin
In reply to this message
Brittle plastics are killing so many machines. I had a small early thinkpad collection, but those are just falling apart overtime I touch them
ВЗ
20:31
The button just broke
7 October 2024
Y
16:44
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 07.10.2024 15:01:18
No bomb inside
Y
16:44
YL3AKC
Of course I have pogo pins for better contact.
Y
16:45
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 07.10.2024 16:12:38
Y
20:26
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 07.10.2024 18:28:51
20:26
Y
YL3AKC 07.10.2024 19:13:24
A
22:28
Armin
Risky, buying a pager in 2024.
Y
22:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I am an electronic engineer, so...
1st thing: open and inspect before putting battery in.
1st thing: open and inspect before putting battery in.
22:31
The only problem with pager: not working on GRiD research...
A
22:34
Armin
Can't work on Grid all the time.
(I'm working on an osborne 1 and compaq portable r.n.)
What are you doing with those pagers
(I'm working on an osborne 1 and compaq portable r.n.)
What are you doing with those pagers
Y
22:34
YL3AKC
I have two pagers.
22:35
memo Express from old times, but I bricked it. Don't know how to unbrick.
22:35
Today I got from eBay 2nd Pager. Photos above.
22:35
Just nostalgic for vintage technologies.
22:36
And YES, I can sent messages over the air with raspberry Pi on pirate style.
22:36
Also I want to research programming protocol between MS DOS software and pager.
22:37
It is annoying to rund MS DOS programming software in DOSbox on linux just to configure pager settings...
A
22:37
Armin
Cool, remind me, how do these work? Do they need a network to connect to?
Y
22:38
YL3AKC
And, of course, research things.
22:38
POSCAG pager protocol...
22:38
Make pager to work wit LoRa on legal frequencies etc.
22:39
Do you know what is RDS on FM radio?
👎
A
22:39
Now imagine that every FM radio in cars on street have unique ID.
22:40
And in RDS there are text message and CAR ID.
22:40
No knowledge about RDS? Hmm...
A
22:40
Armin
🤔, no encryption?
Y
22:40
YL3AKC
aha, no encription
22:40
all plain text.
22:41
but... Some moder pagers have propiertary (non standart) things for encition.
22:41
Mostly in THAT country where pagers caboom!
A
22:41
Armin
Hmm, cool didn't know that, so anyone could theoretically pick up and read every message.
Y
22:42
YL3AKC
OK. Let's try in following way...
A
22:42
Armin
Or mass send spam messages
Y
22:42
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
You can set up software on PC and decode all meesages from AIR for all costumers.
👍
A
22:42
Ok.
22:43
We have something like FM radio tower with 200W power.
22:43
This will cover a big regoin
22:43
that FM tower will transmit 101010
22:43
then there is protocol
22:44
protocol contain address field and data field.
22:44
if address match one programmed in your pager, it will pick up that message and show on your screen.
22:44
if address does not match, pager will ignore it.
22:44
that's basic priciple.
22:45
And..
22:45
Radio tower don't know was message delivered to your or not.
22:45
So there is no mechanism to warraty message delivery.
22:45
Tower just send message and forget.
22:46
Next thing. There is operator in call centre.
A
Y
22:47
YL3AKC
Your friend will call to call center and tell: "Hi nice girl, your voice sounds so sweet. Can you help me with..."
22:47
"Ok, necermind. Please send message to costumer number 34563 with text" I Love you!" "
22:48
Lovely girl in call center write costumer number and message in pager terminal. Then hit [Enter] and magic happens.
22:49
Terminall will contact with ALL towers over dial-up line and send message.
22:50
Towers pick up phone call one bu one (terminal is calling individually to everu tower). Then tower will transmitt message onver the air.
22:50
pager will pick up message, check address and...
PROFIT!
PROFIT!
22:51
Because it is only one way communication, nobody can track where is costumer located.
22:51
Because costumer not send anything on air.
A
22:51
Armin
Hmm, so, what are you trying to do then? Emulate tower with rpi?
Y
22:51
YL3AKC
And all fowers spam on air data even if costumer is not in radio waves range.
22:52
In reply to this message
Yes, but... I already done tham. Onlu difference: my tower is few milliWat power instead of few houdreds of Watss.
22:53
Some 10-50 meter range. Range not tested yet because, well, it is kinda illegal to transit and I got my toy only today. Will do range tests later.
22:54
Look on pager as on FM radio. One pager tower have huge coverage. Like good old analog FM.
22:54
Because of frequencies.
22:54
Pagers usually worked on 140-175 MHz.
22:54
FM radio is 87-108 MHz
22:55
longer tha wave (lower frequency) better penatration in buildings.
A
22:55
Armin
Cool, thanks for the explanation. Hadn't really thought about how these worked, always assume these were more like bi directional cell connections.
Y
22:55
YL3AKC
2.4 GHz and 5.8 GHz sucks compared to 100 MHz...
A
22:56
Armin
So where there network fees? Like a subscription?
Y
22:56
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
There was two way paging on end of 90-ties, but... GSM kill it really quick.
👍
A
22:56
SMS is much more easy way than whole pager infrastucture, so...
22:57
Pagers died...
TT
23:05
T Tron
Pocsag pagers?
Y
23:05
YL3AKC
Yes, pascag.. Or pocsag. Whatever it spells.
23:06
And I got pager from AMERICA!
Make pagers great again!
Make pagers great again!
23:08
Dam it! Pager on belt looks so cool!
23:08
It not like you boring touchscreen phone...
8 October 2024
ВЗ
Y
ВЗ
TT
Y
Y
19:41
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Raspberry Pi with rpitx inside.
And on Compass 1129 you simply type something like
Compass is just another serial terminal emulator for RPi
And on Compass 1129 you simply type something like
echo -e "0004569:BEEP" | sudo ./pocsag -f 152225000 -r 1200
Compass is just another serial terminal emulator for RPi
TT
20:02
T Tron
Yea, it was for an art party / cyberpunk rave thing
20:02
We did make a pager GUI
Y
20:55
YL3AKC
You made "pager terminal" if I understand correctly. Pager terminal where operator enters message and send to pager network.
20:55
Anyway cool that it is GRiD!
16 October 2024
Y
16:54
YL3AKC
Colleague learning how to GRiD...
26 October 2024
Y
Y
16:51
YL3AKC
Again... Working on video equpment restoring instead of GRiD stuff...
Y
G
16:54
GRiD_Discord_Telegram_Bridge_bot
test from discord
27 October 2024
Valera K. joined group by request
2 November 2024
V
13:12
Valera K.
Hello! I have become the owner of a GRiDPad Convertible 2260 from 1993. However, it didn't come with a pen. I want to recreate it! I saw that there is a patent for this pen and that someone even started some work on it using Arduino. But I can't find anything in Google or in the VCFed forum. If there are any users of this device here, or if @Megabozyakorovka has a link or contact for someone, please let me know"
Upd. Found! https://t.me/gridcompasschat/9303
Upd. Found! https://t.me/gridcompasschat/9303
A
14:43
Armin
I was in the same situation 2 years ago, I got this nice pre-production 2260 but didn't have the pen. Luckily I found someone last year that was selling one on Ebay with 2 pens included. So I asked him nicely if he would sell me the extra pen. And that's how I got mine.
Unfortunately that won't help you much. ;)
Unfortunately that won't help you much. ;)
V
Y
14:51
YL3AKC
What is so special with that pen?
A
Y
14:51
YL3AKC
How it works?
14:52
What is an idea behind this active pen?
A
14:52
Armin
Long shot. But maybe reach out to this person. https://randoc.wordpress.com/2018/04/29/grid-convertible-model-2270/
Also seems to have 2 pens ;)
Also seems to have 2 pens ;)
Y
14:55
YL3AKC
Maybe it is just square wave generator inside pen and it can be replicated somehow...
u
14:55
usernameak
In reply to this message
wacom had (and still has) multiple different incompatible digitizer technologies, so that doesn't help much ;)
V
14:56
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Kirill mentioned in the video that there's nothing complicated: just a copper coil and a timer. Like in Wacom, but not in Wacom. But without having the description on hand, replicating it will be... a problem
14:57
I hope that either Kirill or someone else will help find the documentation
Y
14:57
YL3AKC
How about this?
A
14:57
Armin
If I can open mine without destroying it I'll try.
Y
14:57
YL3AKC
Same technology?
V
15:00
Valera K.
Same principle, but there are some differences due to which other pens do not work...
u
Y
u
15:03
usernameak
because Wacom has two different (and incompatible!) techs nowadays (at least in the last 15-20 years)
15:04
one of them is active, the other is not :)
Y
15:04
YL3AKC
Ok. How many buttons are on GRiD's wacom pen? 0,1,2 ???
15:05
Detailed internal PICs would be great.
15:06
All hopes on @ConventionalMemories pen...
u
15:11
usernameak
EMR is passive
Y
15:11
YL3AKC
And on GRiD there is active ?
u
Y
15:12
YL3AKC
Hmm. OK...
u
V
A
16:00
Armin
Interestingly the FCC ID on the pen "dzlpaa1" points to it being made by Logitech
16:02
Unfortunately the case is ultrasonic welded. So I won't break it open :/
Y
3 November 2024
Y
09:03
YL3AKC
I think it is possible to build pen replica with atTiny4/5/9/10 MCU
09:05
Or... Worst case: 8 pin AVR MCU like atTiny13a or atTiny25/45/85
6 November 2024
A
02:20
Armin
Quick question, I am thinking of putting a HDD in my Gridcase plus. Is the internal hdd supported under GRiD-os? Hoping to dual boot ms-dos /GRiD-OS.
A
03:08
Armin
I think I found my answer, one small sentence I must have skipped over in the owners manual. So yes, it looks like it is. ;)
Y
A
7 November 2024
YL3AKC invited Лев "Ma France" Харламов
Л
23:30
Лев "Ma France" Харламов
Приветствую!
23:30
Hello to everyone
Y
23:31
YL3AKC
Hellord!
👍
Л
A
23:43
Armin
Hi, welcome ;)
8 November 2024
Y
00:36
For that who want my GRiD archive right now...
V
Л
23 November 2024
Y
00:51
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 23.11.2024 00:49:07
HDD test station 1st run with 8 HDDs
00:51
00:51
Y
00:51
YL3AKC
Not GRiD related, but...
00:52
HDD test station project moving forward
Y
00:59
YL3AKC
Y
YL3AKC 23.11.2024 00:54:05
00:59
Y
01:00
YL3AKC
Visually nothing impressive but behind scenes some research, reversing and lot of soldering
28 November 2024
18:08
Anyone who knows what this is?
TT
18:10
T Tron
Weirf
18:10
weird
18:11
I will cross reference some things later
18:11
Also sorry I’ve not been around. I am in the process of moving 800 miles
A
18:11
Armin
I know that seller has a lot of stuff directly from GRiD.
TT
18:11
T Tron
With my collection this has been non trivial
18:11
No hacks last 3-4 months or so
Y
18:11
YL3AKC
No idea, but will save PICs.
TT
18:12
T Tron
1988 is fairly late?
18:12
If I had to guess it is an external handset to provide compatibility to compass apps that used the modem as a dialer and an external handset
18:12
So you would cable this into the modem on your gridcsse
18:12
And get a handset
18:13
And this is for like, the small # of users who used that dialer functionality so it’s kinda jank
A
19:10
Armin
Hmm weird, what would that ribbon connect to then?
Y
19:51
YL3AKC
Maybe it's an external modem? Connecting to somewhere on main board...
29 November 2024
YL
12:09
I know that the first mass sales started in january 1983. Most likely it is ext.modem. The 1100 model didn't have an internal modem, perhaps for it
Y
14:39
YL3AKC
Hmm. Interesting idea...
14:40
But... It has approx 34 pin cable. Too much for 1100 modem.
30 November 2024
A
04:20
Armin
Afaik, the 1100 only launched later, together with the 1107 and 1109 in jan 1984
04:21
1101 is the first model.
04:25
Like I said the seller has had some internal GRiD stuff in the past. So this might have never been on sale. (Although the fact it has a model and serial number makes that unlikely)
04:26
In reply to this message
Date is January 1983, so definitely compass or central related, not Gridcase
25 December 2024
Y
15:53
YL3AKC
Finally! Got some time to work on GRiD emulator...
just fixed stupid error with SDL
This fix made few more errors. Slowly fixing them.
❤
just fixed stupid error with SDL
This fix made few more errors. Slowly fixing them.
A
V
Y
20:38
YL3AKC
Looks like need to rework whole emulator for sanity and f**k
You know... "SDL don't like when part of drawing stuff is called from thread instead of main loop!"
Sometimes I thing that windows bullshit is useful...
pthread_create() code from original...You know... "SDL don't like when part of drawing stuff is called from thread instead of main loop!"
Sometimes I thing that windows bullshit is useful...
5 January 2025
Y
13:46
YL3AKC
13:47
Almost GRiD related...
Learning how to control and program my EL display with RPi Pi Pico
Learning how to control and program my EL display with RPi Pi Pico
13:50
V
A
YL
6 January 2025
Y
16:12
YL3AKC
I am kinda back to Compass research.
16:13
After analyzing Initialize Media~Run~
Looks like I found Boot loader binaries.
Looks like I found Boot loader binaries.
16:14
There are 3 bootloaders.
Each 0x0800 bytes long
Offsets:
0x0000
0x8000
0x1000
Each 0x0800 bytes long
Offsets:
0x0000
0x8000
0x1000
16:16
Offset 0x1800 contains another 1024 bytes (2 sectors) of unknown data.
16:19
During boot process CCPROM following happens:
* Load sector 1
* Check for string "System Disk!"
* If Have string. Than
* Load 4 sectors (2048 bytes) into RAM address 2000:0000
* Calculate checksum
* If checksum is OK then
* jump far to address 2000:0006
* Load sector 1
* Check for string "System Disk!"
* If Have string. Than
* Load 4 sectors (2048 bytes) into RAM address 2000:0000
* Calculate checksum
* If checksum is OK then
* jump far to address 2000:0006
Y
18:44
YL3AKC
1st try to write my own Bootloader...
18:44
A
18:44
Now I can debug bubble memory emulator problems.
18:45
And also tinker with real Compass and understand why it won't boot with Gotek/flashfloppy.
9 January 2025
Y
19:24
YL3AKC
Looks like I need to test this on real Compass...
👍
V
A
E
Y
20:09
YL3AKC
Doh! FDD won't work. Need to check cables...
Y
20:59
YL3AKC
Simple restart helpet to get 2102 FDD back to life.
Nah! Compass can not read bootloader sectors.
Sectors 1 - 5
Throwing "Storage medium error"
So. Look's like there problems with Gotek config.
Nah! Compass can not read bootloader sectors.
Sectors 1 - 5
Throwing "Storage medium error"
So. Look's like there problems with Gotek config.
21:02
Probablu there is problem with sector 1 reading.
Because CCPROM read sector 1, then compare with string "System Disk!" If no mach, throw error message.
But there are other cases when trowing read error.
Because CCPROM read sector 1, then compare with string "System Disk!" If no mach, throw error message.
But there are other cases when trowing read error.
21:03
Strange that File system from FDD is reading correctly if booted form bubble.
21:04
What if...
21:05
I'll make lot of sectors with correct "system Disk!" Signature. I should get Checksum error...
21:16
No success. Still the same error... Time to rest. Will continue another day... 😞
A
21:25
Armin
Did you use that same flashfloppy config i shared with the right interleaf?
Y
21:43
YL3AKC
Trying both with config and without config.
21:43
My config file is based on your's.
21:44
[::368640]
cyls = 40
heads = 2
bps = 512
secs = 9
mode = mfm
interleave = 5
id = 1
rate = 0
[::737280]
cyls = 80
heads = 2
bps = 512
secs = 9
mode = mfm
interleave = 5
id = 1
tracks = 0-79.1
rate = 0
21:47
My Gotek had incorrect jumper settings...
I had S1 and JC jumpers.
vcfed forum is tellning that you need S0 and JC jumpers + no config at all for GriDcase 1520...
I had S1 and JC jumpers.
vcfed forum is tellning that you need S0 and JC jumpers + no config at all for GriDcase 1520...
21:47
So I am experimenting
A
21:49
Armin
Hmm I'll check what the original drive was jumpered for.
Y
21:51
YL3AKC
Looks like S0 is correct.
Because with S1 jumper, I see
Previously I opened Floppy 1 and had access to files
Floppy (0) not worked.
Because with S1 jumper, I see
Bubble memory
Portable floppy
Portable Floppy 1
Previously I opened Floppy 1 and had access to files
Floppy (0) not worked.
21:52
After setting S0 jumper, I have access to Floppy (0) and can not see Floppy 1
21:52
So S0 sound correct...
A
21:52
Armin
This was how I had mine working.
Y
21:53
YL3AKC
Now I am trying to boot from some .IMGs (interleave=5)
Not tested all 7 IMGs so far, but getting CCOS checsum errors... Standby!
Not tested all 7 IMGs so far, but getting CCOS checsum errors... Standby!
A
21:55
Armin
S0 is correct, and I had all others open on mine.
Y
A
21:55
Armin
Connection for rotary knob
Y
21:56
YL3AKC
Ahh, OK.
A
21:57
Armin
But JC is open, at least that worked for me
21:59
21:59
Try this raw hfe file
22:00
If that works then the issue is in your FF config, if it doesn't then it is somewhere else
Y
22:01
YL3AKC
WTF? Where is my phone/camera! 😱
22:02
V
A
22:04
22:05
Looks like I can start to write mo own OS for Compass in ASM...
22:06
Need to learn how to read any sector from Floppy... I have some some hints in one of original source code files from @ConventionalMemories 20 MB HDD dump...
A
22:07
Armin
Wow that's awesome, 👍🫵
Y
22:09
This is boot code from HDD master boot sector. I think, I can figure out how to read sectors.
I already used this file to understand how to write text on screen when experimenting in emulator...
I already used this file to understand how to write text on screen when experimenting in emulator...
22:10
22:11
Nah! Too easy!😎
A
22:11
Armin
CPM x86?
Y
22:12
YL3AKC
Emulator version.
22:12
BTW... Looks like i slowed sown emulator too much and real GRiD works much faster than I excepted...
A
22:13
Armin
That's really cool, so what's next? ;)
Y
22:14
YL3AKC
OK. Need to learn how to read sectors and...
🤢🍎
🤢🍎
22:15
Hmm... Lets try to do some flickering benchmark. I want to see how fast can be filled screen with all pixels on then off then on again...
👍
A
A
22:17
Armin
In reply to this message
No, just to see why your gotek wasn't working. But it seems you've got it working now. ;)
Y
A
22:19
Armin
Yes, I used hfe files on mine before I got the config correct, because the hfe don't need them. It has all the interleaf etc in the file.
Y
22:20
YL3AKC
Ahh, OK! Going to try.
22:21
Other .IMGs from my collectionnot booting, but... I don't care about it now. Will check them later.
So, now .hfe and little more coding in ASM...
So, now .hfe and little more coding in ASM...
A
22:22
Armin
In reply to this message
Doesn't matter now that you have img working. Img is a lot easier to extract and import data in and out
Y
22:22
YL3AKC
Ok .hfe booting... I can see FDD activity and GRiD boot picture on screen...
22:23
OK. Boot complete form Gotek...
22:24
Sound's like I need to solder Logic analyzer, oder and solder GPiB PCB and finish @Megabozyakorovka work...
Maybe...
Maybe...
22:24
Also need to start reversing Compass PCB, PSU and modem...
22:25
Dohh... Lot of work...
A
22:28
Armin
This is a great first step to make a diagnostic disk with ram test, for compasses that won't boot ccos
Y
22:38
YL3AKC
Maybe...
22:38
Wow! What a speed! This machine definitely can do animation/video!
22:40
I see the same as on camera. Flickerring like a hell!
22:41
Emulator is really slow...
22:41
A
22:42
Armin
Not that clear on camera, but looks fast.
Y
22:47
Y
23:08
YL3AKC
Question: How to fit "Bad Apple" into ~245 kB of RAM ?
E
23:17
EXL
In reply to this message
No problem with this amount of RAM i think
One frame at 240x320 @ 1bpp requires only 9600 bytes when uncompressed
One frame at 240x320 @ 1bpp requires only 9600 bytes when uncompressed
23:19
Bad Apple prioritizes "ROM" capacity and IO speed
Y
23:29
In reply to this message
No need for CCPROM functions. OK, maybe to read data form disk... Graphics can be done by directly writing onto video RAM. Video ram is mapped into main memory address space. So you can access to every pixel on screen.
23:31
Or... It is possible to use pseudo graphics with custom font table and CCPROM functions. This can save RAM space, but will add work for CPU.
10 January 2025
Y
05:33
05:33
Source code for fill screen bootloader and checkSum program
Y
18:10
YL3AKC
@usernameak How to detect in software is is Compass (11xx) or Compass 2 (12xx, 13xx) and screen size?
18:10
; The 8086 will jump to here after a Reset
RestartSegment SEGMENT AT (0FFFFh)
JMP CompassPromStart
DataTable DW ScreenAddr
DataTable1 DW ScreenWidth
DataTable2 DW ScreenHeight
DataTable3 DW AspectRatio
DataTable4 DW GpibBuffaloSplit
RestartSegment ENDS
END
18:11
If last bytes in CCPROM are 0x00, then it is early Compass
18:12
If last bytes not equal to 0x00 it is compass 2.
Now read these bytes and you will get screen size.
If 320 and 240 then 12xx, if 512 and 256 thwn 13xx
Now read these bytes and you will get screen size.
If 320 and 240 then 12xx, if 512 and 256 thwn 13xx
18:13
Now where is screen buffer for 13xx?
It is in the same RAM region, but bigger. Right after screen buffer there are CCPROM variables/structures.
It is in the same RAM region, but bigger. Right after screen buffer there are CCPROM variables/structures.
18:14
there are 2 options for screen sizes.. 9600 bytes for small screens and 16384
This can answer on your questions how to proceed with GRiD MAME emulator.
This can answer on your questions how to proceed with GRiD MAME emulator.
18:15
It is cool that @ConventionalMemories found Hard disk with Compass 2 sources and save it for civilization!
❤
A
V
TT
21:10
Is there enough to implement the protocols?
21:10
Where is the disk?
Y
21:19
Or... @ConventionalMemories maybe have .IMG for this?
21:21
In reply to this message
If you are talking about network, well... There is something, but not sure about usefulness for you...
A
21:21
Armin
No, but you can open them with the disk tools. T Tron this is the same dump from last time. No new dumps :/
Y
TT
21:32
T Tron
Sorry - I have been moving 😵💫
21:32
A
Y
21:38
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Wrong destination! You MUST send all this stuff to my location!
😁
TT
21:48
In reply to this message
Jokes are jokes, but I hope you not live in California and you don't have any problems with fire!
TT
21:51
T Tron
I am in California and zoned high fire risk
21:51
I think the property itself is OK, knock on wood
21:51
Considering one of these if my bonus is good:
21:52
Unfortunately my work is in Silicon Valley and they told me my “career would be better near HQ”
Y
TT
21:53
T Tron
21:53
Hard sell. It’s beautiful here
21:54
Y
21:54
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
What about underground bunker digging? Colin Furze already done it!
😁
TT
TT
21:55
T Tron
Need some of these rich tech assholes to give me enough $ to open a museum proper, really
21:55
GRiD campus is now Facebook 🤮
Y
TT
21:58
T Tron
We should get permission to dig up their office in search of grid
Y
A
TT
22:08
T Tron
LOL no
22:08
I wanted square footage
22:08
Wife wanted quality
22:08
Wife won
😁
A
22:08
Hahaha
Y
A
22:11
Armin
Haha, now you HAVE to start a small museum.
22:12
Btw, if you don't mind me asking, what line of work are you into?
TT
22:19
T Tron
Are you on LinkedIn? I’ll add you out of band
Y
22:20
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Le fuuu! Micro-soft... I deleted my linkedin account 8 years ago!
😁
TT
A
22:26
Armin
Nope, lol. I'm one of those weirdos that isn't on any social media. :/
TT
22:26
T Tron
I am a group product manager at a silicon company
Y
22:29
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Then make a GRiD Compass great again! Just make a new/old product GRiD Compass with almost original silicon parts and software!
😁
A
TT
TT
22:30
T Tron
Only Intel can do that! I don’t have an x86 license!
Y
22:30
YL3AKC
Yes! Today is Friday evening I am drinking and writing bullshit!
😁
TT
A
TT
22:31
T Tron
You can probably guess the company. They are known for being big, green, and making things other than CPUs
👍
A
Y
22:31
YL3AKC
Drink and program GRiD Compass bootloader!
TT
22:31
T Tron
But I do their CPUs
22:31
Not the … other -PUs hahaha
A
22:32
Armin
Say no more. ;)
TT
22:32
T Tron
What about you, Armin? What do you work on?
Y
A
22:34
Armin
In reply to this message
Nothing fancy, local (Belgian) non profit that helps children of low income families.
Y
A
22:35
Armin
I'm in charge of our initiative to provide free computers / Internet access
22:37
Pay isn't that great, but job is pretty rewarding.
Y
A
22:44
Armin
Haha I wish we got donated some real vintage pieces. But no, luckily we do actually get modern stuff to help people with. ;)
Y
A
22:49
Armin
You'd be surprised what business give you when they can write it off.
Most of our stuff is 2 to 4 year old dell, HP etc. Business Laptops
Most of our stuff is 2 to 4 year old dell, HP etc. Business Laptops
Y
22:51
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I kinda understand it when see how your TV3 television company mahe auctions of old computers for employees and when they donate computers to Ukaine.
22:54
For example. IT guys removed old NAS from server racks. As result I have 48 HDDs (3 NAS) with total capacity of 96 TBs at home right now. Yes, they are old and I not tested yet healts (this is why I am building HDD test station), but anyway...
TT
Y
TT
Y
22:57
YL3AKC
Is is cheaper to have AI girlfriend that real girlfriend? How much Watts of electricity she needs?
A
23:03
Armin
One of the slightly annoying things is that we have to put Chrome OS on some pretty high end hardware, because that's what most of the younger kids use at school. Some of those high end I7 32gb 3050ti dell xps's running chrome os just hurts sometimes, all that potential power that will never be used. :/
Y
23:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Wow! Really? There are only one of two conclusions:
1) I am getting old
2) Civilizations is going to an end...
1) I am getting old
2) Civilizations is going to an end...
A
23:10
Armin
Well mostly primary schools, some secondary. Most of our pc's still go out running windows or osx tho.
Y
23:12
YL3AKC
As linux user last 10 years on daily basis, I will newer understand this...
23:13
A
A
23:16
Armin
In reply to this message
Haha, I should make the executive decision at work. To only provide computers running Arch Linux to all children starting at 5yo
Y
23:18
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I think Arch is too hard for beginners. Why not use Lubuntu? Easy install... Auto updates... Browser not broken after updates... Minecraft can work on Lubuntu....
A
23:28
Armin
In reply to this message
Well, it's what they are used to. We mostly want them to be able to keep up with their peers, and just provide the necessary hardware and support. Not teach them new OS's etc. Most of these kids have enough to learn already, like the language for example, many of them are new in the country etc.
18 January 2025
Y
15:20
YL3AKC
I don't know is it important or not, but...
I managed to compress 60.2 MBytes of "Bad Apple" video into 8.9 MBytes of RLE encoded data.
Now it is possible to fit Bad apple video on external HDD.
I managed to compress 60.2 MBytes of "Bad Apple" video into 8.9 MBytes of RLE encoded data.
Now it is possible to fit Bad apple video on external HDD.
31 January 2025
Y
22:08
YL3AKC
RFC (request for comments)...
22:08
Original GRiD Serial port pinout
22:08
1. shield shield
2. TXD+ TXC (9)
3. RXD+ RXD (10)
4. RTS
5. CTS
6. DSR
7. GND GND
8. DCD
9. TXD- (2)
10. RXD- GND (3)
11. TXC
12. DTR
13. RI/SI
14. -10V -10V
15. TXC- TXC/SPD (16)
16. TXC+ (15)
17. RXC- GND (18)
18. RXC+ RXC (17)
19. +10V +10V
2. TXD+ TXC (9)
3. RXD+ RXD (10)
4. RTS
5. CTS
6. DSR
7. GND GND
8. DCD
9. TXD- (2)
10. RXD- GND (3)
11. TXC
12. DTR
13. RI/SI
14. -10V -10V
15. TXC- TXC/SPD (16)
16. TXC+ (15)
17. RXC- GND (18)
18. RXC+ RXC (17)
19. +10V +10V
22:08
What about changing oringinal ITT 19 pin connector to sometring... more cheap?
22:08
For example 15 Pin VGA connector
22:09
New pinout for VGA connector
22:09
1. TXD+ TXC (8)
2. RXD+ RXD
3. RTS
4. CTS
5. DSR
6. GND GND
7. DCD
8. TXD- (1)
9. TXC
10. DTR
11. RI/SI
12. TXC- TXC/SPD (13)
13. TXC+ (12)
14. RXC+ RXC
2. RXD+ RXD
3. RTS
4. CTS
5. DSR
6. GND GND
7. DCD
8. TXD- (1)
9. TXC
10. DTR
11. RI/SI
12. TXC- TXC/SPD (13)
13. TXC+ (12)
14. RXC+ RXC
u
22:09
usernameak
you reminded of you know what
22:11
In reply to this message
at some point i've seen some video cables for amiga online that had a DB-25 connector grinded down to DB-23 (instead of a proper DB-23 connector)
Y
22:16
YL3AKC
@usernameak Wodered what special question need to as you...
Ahh. Remeber now.
GRiD OS/CCOS checksumm stuff...
GRID don't have special fields called checksum.
You frowide to CCOS routine (API) block of memory and len. It will do something and return correct or wrong.
Actually you have array of memory. Provide it to routine and if after checksum calculation result is 0x0000, than everything is OK.
How to deal with it?
You can add 2 bytes (word) padding and put into it magic (calculated) values to make checksum calculation get working.
No need for special checksum fields. They are automatically embedded into questionable memory block. In any place you want. Beginning, middle, end. Whatever.
Ahh. Remeber now.
GRiD OS/CCOS checksumm stuff...
GRID don't have special fields called checksum.
You frowide to CCOS routine (API) block of memory and len. It will do something and return correct or wrong.
Actually you have array of memory. Provide it to routine and if after checksum calculation result is 0x0000, than everything is OK.
How to deal with it?
You can add 2 bytes (word) padding and put into it magic (calculated) values to make checksum calculation get working.
No need for special checksum fields. They are automatically embedded into questionable memory block. In any place you want. Beginning, middle, end. Whatever.
22:17
In reply to this message
Why we need them? Do we need 10ths of meters symmetrical line for experiments? Instead put GRiD server near GRiD Compass and use short cable. So, profit! No need for symmetrical line.
u
6 February 2025
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Looks like Audio DAC is on address DFE4:0002
Will write test routine and poke this address with hope to hear some noise or clicks.
Will write test routine and poke this address with hope to hear some noise or clicks.
8 February 2025
Y
18:20
YL3AKC
Well... What we have on modem? Pinout:
1 - speaker (signal)
2 - speaker (GND on modem)
3 - !TxCb (TX clock?) (8274 pin7)
4 - !RxCb (RX clock?) (8274 pin4)
5 - +5
6 - +5
7 - GND
8 - GND
9 - !CS 8255 (pin6)
10 - DACs pin2
11 - D1
12 - D0
13 - D3
14 - D2
15 - D5
16 - D4
17 - D7
18 - D6
19 - TxDb (transmit data?) (8274 pin8)
20 - RxDb (receive data?) (8274 pin9)
21 - A0 (DAC1 pin19)
22 - A1 (DAC2 pin19)
23 - !RD
24 - !WR (DACs pin1)
25 - IRQ2
26 - RESET
27 - GND
28 - GND
29 - +5
30 - +5
31 - -12
32 - -12
33 - +12
34 - +12
Y
18:54
YL3AKC
And... Screen signal connector pinout
1 - pixel Data
2 - GND
3 - pixel Clock
4 - GND
5 - (hSync?) U34 pin22 (IRQ3)
6 - GND
7 - (vSync?) U35 pin21
8 - GND
9 - Speaker+ (From modem board)
10 - Speaker- (GND on modem board)
Y
20:45
YL3AKC
Hmm... Looks like 1101 not using any timers.
20:47
TimerTick Interrupt pin is sourced directly from PAL, and also conneceted to Display hSync or Vsync pin.
20:48
80130 (interrupt controller+timer) does not use tier functionality at all. Looks like all 3 timer output pins are not connected to anything.
20:49
This explain why Compass 2 motherboards (don't remember exact models) have only 8259 interrupt controller IC.
9 February 2025
Y
13:01
Let's call this: 1st sound from GRiD with assembly.
13:03
It's CCPROM hacking time.
Plan: get ~22 KHz sample rate and do some sine, triangle or saw tooth.
Plan: get ~22 KHz sample rate and do some sine, triangle or saw tooth.
13:03
@usernameak Want details?
u
Y
13:06
Bad Apple video is compressed into ~8.1 MBytes. Ideas how to load it into GRiD ?
u
13:07
usernameak
In reply to this message
i wonder if it's possible to stream it from an external drive
Y
u
13:09
usernameak
did you try to RLE blocks instead of scanlines btw?
Y
13:11
In reply to this message
Well...
1) Let's take all frames and calculate deltas. I want difference between two frames.
2) Let's assume all frames are linear byte stream.
3) do RLE for byte stream
Decode and play (do the same in reverse order).
1) Let's take all frames and calculate deltas. I want difference between two frames.
2) Let's assume all frames are linear byte stream.
3) do RLE for byte stream
Decode and play (do the same in reverse order).
u
Y
13:20
YL3AKC
Maybe... Maybe I also need to try scan bitmap by diagonal like in in JPG, but this will add overhead while decoding on Compass.
13:22
So far I made some statiscits on RLE.
1 bit set "command" executes more than 1 000 000 times. So by reducing this "command" from 8bit (1byte) into something shorter (1 bit) will give lot of reduction.
1 bit set "command" executes more than 1 000 000 times. So by reducing this "command" from 8bit (1byte) into something shorter (1 bit) will give lot of reduction.
13:23
u
13:26
usernameak
In reply to this message
a lot of compression tools resolve that by using one of the bits in the length field to select one of two modes:
compressed chunk (be it RLE, LZ or whatever)
or just raw data
compressed chunk (be it RLE, LZ or whatever)
or just raw data
Y
13:27
YL3AKC
I am thinking of kinda Huffman encoding
u
13:27
usernameak
huffman is slow to decode though
Y
13:27
YL3AKC
Why slow?
13:29
Assume that I have 64-240 kBytes buffer of memory.
1) Fill it from storage.
2) Read bit by bit.
3) If bit pattern match, then do screen fill (actually XOR) with necessary bit (pixel) count.
1) Fill it from storage.
2) Read bit by bit.
3) If bit pattern match, then do screen fill (actually XOR) with necessary bit (pixel) count.
13:30
more commonly used values can be encoded with shorter bit pattern.
13:31
Only problem: 8086 doesn't have nice bit manipulation commands, compared to microcontrollers...
Y
13:56
YL3AKC
Well... Can I fit 1880 bytes of data and decoder into 2048 bytes of bootsector size? So I can get at least still frame on this super sexy EL display...
Y
14:37
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Don't think so... I already have 8 bits/sample data. How to reduce that?
u
Y
10 February 2025
Y
00:06
YL3AKC
Some updates on GRiD screen signals
00:06
1 - pixel Data
2 - GND
3 - pixel Clock
4 - GND
5 - hSync ~16.17 kHz U34 pin22. Also IRQ3 on 80130
6 - GND
7 - vSync ~60.46 Hz U35 pin21
8 - GND
9 - Speaker+ (From modem board)
10 - Speaker- (GND on modem board)
00:07
00:07
00:07
00:08
So. Timer interrupt also happens approx 16 000 times per second.
00:09
This can be used to push audio data into DAC ans speaker with some minimal ASM hacks, and, maybe, without interfering too much with CCPROM/storage drivers/CCOS
00:10
T Nice to see you! How it's going?
TT
00:10
T Tron
Not bad. Still no lab here in California so I’m a useless git
00:10
00:11
The workbenches (benchdepot) were supposed to come Friday; slipped to Monday because truck got stuck
Y
TT
00:11
T Tron
Maddening. I can’t unboxed anything or do any work without any furniture
00:11
There isn’t enough room to unbox machines without space to tuck them under
00:11
Etc etc
00:11
So I have been fucking worthless for months
00:11
Moving sucks; never again
Y
TT
00:12
T Tron
lol the boxes are so fucked too
00:12
They packed everything randomly
00:12
All just labeled like “computer”
00:12
“Computer parts”
Y
00:13
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Well... they are... "experts", but in different field... Not in retrocomputing...
00:15
Pine apple, pen pen apple pine, pine apple pen...
❤
TT
00:15
Should I need to make screen cloning function for 1101? And get Composite video out from 1101?
TT
00:16
T Tron
That was apparently a stock configuration back in the day
Y
00:17
YL3AKC
I can do 2nd EL display (clone) with RPI Pi Pico and composite out, but...
It would be great to go in analog way...
With AD725, potentiometers to fine tune color etc...
It would be great to go in analog way...
With AD725, potentiometers to fine tune color etc...
00:30
T Another nice finding on 1101: it has COVOX thingie as stock option! And it is possible to tinger with it.
Damit, who else had COVOX on 1982.?
INTEGRATED, right from factory!
Damit, who else had COVOX on 1982.?
INTEGRATED, right from factory!
TT
00:30
T Tron
Wait really??!
00:30
Source?
00:30
We need to document this shit
Y
00:30
YL3AKC
GRiD made COVOX before it was invented by COVOX Inc!
00:31
Yesterday I made 1st boop from it!
TT
00:31
T Tron
Ah the simple d/a
00:31
Yes
00:31
Cooooool!!!!
Y
TT
00:31
T Tron
How are you pushing code to it?
Y
00:32
YL3AKC
How to run it from assembly right from DIY bootloader!
00:32
In reply to this message
Techically it is simple: write into DFE4:0002 byte and it will do thing!
00:33
By altering this byte, you will get kinda beep.
00:33
I tested it by pushing 0x00 and 0xFF 1000 times per second. See source code!
00:36
Need to learn how to read whole floppy and get access to 360 kBytes instead of 2 kBytes for code/data.
But only after I'll finish existing code.
But only after I'll finish existing code.
00:36
I am trying to get this still image on 1101
00:37
1st attempt today was failure, so I deleted all ASM code.
00:37
But tomorrow I'll do it!
u
00:48
you can use those
00:48
do note though that they cause a context switch to the GPIB task
Y
00:48
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, but... I messed it by constructing incorrect jump/API call table when experimented...
00:49
Today I fixed it, but... Priority is photo with still image from bad apple on EL display.
00:50
I'll try again little later on my emulator and virtual bubble thingy. Then will try with real 1101 and external floppy.
00:52
By looking into HDD MBR source code, it shoudnt be too hard. There are API call for reading LBA sectors from storage. Also for floppy and bubble.
00:54
I need someone, who can make dithering on Bad Apple frame set.
E
01:23
If you need some tips, check "res" folder here:
Y
10:48
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, I am already using ffmpeg for splitting video into 24-bit .BMPs. That easy. Than I conver them into 1-bit .BMPs, but...
If there is grey, I wan to make that part 1-bit checkerboard. Have no idea how to convert grey into checkerboard pattern.
If there is grey, I wan to make that part 1-bit checkerboard. Have no idea how to convert grey into checkerboard pattern.
Y
Y
14:49
YL3AKC
It's time to load .IMG in real Compass...
🔥
KL
14:54
A
KL
14:55
Now what? Do some animation?
E
15:25
convert 0358.bmp 1.png # Original
15:25
convert 0358.bmp -monochrome -normalize 2.png
Y
E
15:27
EXL
convert 0358.bmp -dither Riemersma -colors 2 -normalize 3.png
15:28
convert 0358.bmp -dither FloydSteinberg -colors 2 -normalize 4.png
Y
15:30
I have another problem... decoder/loader works too slow... Need to tinker with assembly...
15:30
Simple image invert works fast. Inverting every second...
E
15:32
EXL
In reply to this message
I tested dithering before, I didn't like it. It's better to do frames without it.
15:33
In addition, frames with dithering take up more space.
Y
15:33
YL3AKC
Space problem can be fixed... Maybe...
15:34
Dithering... Well, maybe later.
Y
12 February 2025
Y
15:17
YL3AKC
@usernameak Regarding CCPROM for 1129 and 1139
They looks really similar. Most differences are regarding CCPROM RAM data pointer.
So video/graphics works in the same manner. It must be easy to make 1139 MAME emulator working
They looks really similar. Most differences are regarding CCPROM RAM data pointer.
So video/graphics works in the same manner. It must be easy to make 1139 MAME emulator working
13 February 2025
Y
05:21
YL3AKC
One more thing: hardware address mapping is different. GPiB sits on different address.
15 February 2025
Y
13:52
YL3AKC
Made experiment, what I wanted long time ago: Read MachineID from EAPROM
Here is result:
Machine ID: 0xB1 0x32 0x08 0x94 0x50 0xC4 0x92 0x5B
Serial number label on 1101 (decimal): 003365
Can't see any correlation between these numbers.
Here is result:
Machine ID: 0xB1 0x32 0x08 0x94 0x50 0xC4 0x92 0x5B
Serial number label on 1101 (decimal): 003365
Can't see any correlation between these numbers.
25 February 2025
Y
19:43
YL3AKC
Working on Compass II 1129 CCPROM disassembly.
This one is more easy because it has (all???) Source code.
This one is more easy because it has (all???) Source code.
19:44
@usernameak 1139 CCPROM is almost identical to 112x series.
28 February 2025
YL3AKC invited Botcatcher
1 March 2025
Y
12:33
YL3AKC
Another small research:
PSU Pinout:
When looking from front of Compass (lid closed)
1. -5V
2.
3. +15.2V
4. GND
5. GND
6. GND
7. +12.6V
8. +5.1V
9. +5.1V
10. -12.2V
Y
16:13
YL3AKC
Guess what I am building now!
8 March 2025
Y
09:28
YL3AKC
E
09:29
Finally! Still image (not real GRiD) works on composite video!
A
09:30
Armin
Is this from the compass?
Y
09:30
YL3AKC
When you forgot to comment out one line - it not a bug it is an art!
09:32
So far Composite video out have own problems. Both in hardware (my Sony pro gear wont accept composite video) and software (bugs in copy/paste code, wrong code logic etc).
09:33
It's time to sample some screen data from real GRiD...
A
10:07
Armin
Cool, still have to try if I can get hdmi trough my RGBtoHDMI
Y
15 March 2025
Y
21 March 2025
Y
19:09
YL3AKC
I wish I have more time on GRiD...
1 April 2025
Y
12:14
It kinda boot from bubble memory, but... Emulator still in crappy state.
9 April 2025
Y
16:19
YL3AKC
Trying to overcome lazyness...
16:19
16:19
Modem board
12 April 2025
Y
16:33
YL3AKC
More work on modem...
16:33
YL
Y
21:17
YL3AKC
Sneak peek into Compass 1101 schematics for enthusiasts.
21:18
Not publishing because incomplete. Will publish later, when complete schematics for 1101
A
23:46
Armin
Nice, great work already. ;)
16 April 2025
Y
20:02
YL3AKC
Sound~Dev~ looks interesting.
It also reference to hardware DAC
When accessing to DAC, it disables interrupts
Send something yout to DAC.
Does NOP many times and returns.
Need to research more asm code.
It also reference to hardware DAC
When accessing to DAC, it disables interrupts
Send something yout to DAC.
Does NOP many times and returns.
Need to research more asm code.
20:03
@usernameak Can you help me with Code fix up during load?
I don't understand how it works in CCOS context.
I don't understand how it works in CCOS context.
u
20:05
basically spots where addresses are going to be changed to be based on where the binary is loaded
Y
20:51
YL3AKC
Yes, in theory this is clear, but... I need example with GRiD OMF file.
20:52
20:54
For example. Here is sound driver.
I read all OMF records. Parse them and write into text file. Also extracted some binary records.
I see fixupp records with data inside. How to interpret data in fixupp record?
I read all OMF records. Parse them and write into text file. Also extracted some binary records.
I see fixupp records with data inside. How to interpret data in fixupp record?
Y
21:16
More easy example. Without fixup's. I kinda disassembled it with IDA 7.6
25 April 2025
Y
18:22
YL3AKC
Huh! I am done with 50% for modem...
18:22
YL
A
22:42
Armin
Nice, coming along nicely. 👌
Y
22:43
YL3AKC
Google Youtube is crazy.
Tried to understand modem schematics, what op-amps are doing in schematics and internals for resistor networks without unsoldering them out.
And then... I am watching stupid guitar video from Code Bullet... and this came out in suggestions...
Tried to understand modem schematics, what op-amps are doing in schematics and internals for resistor networks without unsoldering them out.
And then... I am watching stupid guitar video from Code Bullet... and this came out in suggestions...
22:43
22:43
Dam it! How Youtube know what I need?
u
22:43
usernameak
youtube knows what you googled :)
22:43
because they're the same company
Y
u
Y
22:44
YL3AKC
I just relaxing and watching politics + stupid videos on youtube...
u
22:45
usernameak
In reply to this message
but really... anybody who uses Google Analytics on their website is basically leaking all their requests to Google
Y
22:46
Ok, ok. not that stupid videos. Something from astronomy, pop sci and that's all.
22:46
I didn't googled anything about op-amps for months...
22:47
I even didn't consider to google anything related to modem research. Just leave schematics as is, but...
22:47
Look's like I'll dive deeper in modem circuit.
22:48
Anyway, here is video...
u
22:48
usernameak
Big Brother is watching you ;)
22:48
hehe
Y
22:51
Compared schematics in youtube video and on modem, it looks like half-wave precision rectifier. There should be reason why Racal-Vadik used custom made resistor networks...
22:51
Possible reason: they needed precison resistors in modem.
22:52
BTW, I am using duckduckgo for searching instead of google.
u
22:56
usernameak
i wonder
22:56
is the modem custom-made or an off-the-shelf module?
Y
u
Y
22:58
YL3AKC
Yes, custom made because they needed to fit modem inside GRiD.
22:59
No, not custom, because Racal-Vadig already made modems on that time (1970-ties and 80-ties) and had experience on that.
23:00
According to documents modem must work with 300 and 1200 baud rate.
23:01
300 baud mode is compatible wit Bell 103 standard. They are using Texas Instruments TMS99532 IC for that.
23:01
But 1200 looks like not compatible with Bell 202
23:02
Because 1200 baud standard was too young and there probably was fighting for standards.
23:02
Like DVD-RW vs DVD+RW
23:02
Bell 202 win!
23:03
Later modems by Racal-Vadik was compatible with Bell 202.
23:07
Microcontroller is heavily involved into signal processing.
23:08
it is MSC-48 series, 8049H. It's like 8048 (Hello IBM keyboard) but twice more (2kBytes instead of 1 kByte) program memory.
23:09
Connection between 8049 and GRiD mainboard is a little cumbersome. There is 8255 PPI between MCU and mainboard.
23:09
As soon as I understand modem firmware I'll understand how to control whole modem.
23:10
I has DTMF tone generator. I can do outgoing calls and also answer incoming calls.
23:12
Audio DAC? Well... So far it looks like separate device. Not understand yet how volume/enevelope control works, but... Wave DAC works really simply. You just need to send Wave data to specific address and it kinda beeps and boops.
23:13
I tired, but not worked correctly for me in pure ASM. I need to experiment more with ASM.
23:19
Interesting observation about op-amps...
23:19
RuGRiD yahoo group had picture of modem.
23:20
Lot of ICs with SN10176 from Texas Instruments, but no datasheet...
23:22
@ConventionalMemories Compass 1101 have
SN99121P3 from T.I without any datasheet.
But... There are also RC4558 ICs from T.I.
SN99121P3 from T.I without any datasheet.
But... There are also RC4558 ICs from T.I.
23:22
I know RC4558 style op-amps!
23:23
So, mistery solved! Now I know pinout for SN ICs. They are kinda similar to RC4558
23:25
So far I have problem to identify two Racal-Vadic custom ICs on modem board.
26 April 2025
Y
12:08
YL3AKC
Looks like I found why Youtube suggested me video about op-amp.
I had in recommendations this video. It is about op-amp basics with little hype title.
I had in recommendations this video. It is about op-amp basics with little hype title.
12:09
OK. I opened this video and leave in open tab for later watch.
12:10
This could be reason why I got another video about op-amp. But... Really good suggestion. That rare situation when I want to say thanks to youtube.
u
16:04
but wasn't interested in opamps so didn't watch it
Y
16:04
YL3AKC
Well it's... Specific. Analog electronics...
2 May 2025
A
23:39
Armin
Des anyone have some more info on these white 1101's? I've seen them a couple of times but I wonder if they were rebranded or not?
Y
23:41
YL3AKC
Never saw anything like this. Looks so familiar and different at the same time...
A
23:41
Armin
T Tron, I remember you saying something about these being used for programming intercoms or something. Do you have some more info about that?
Y
23:43
YL3AKC
Chuggotr0n is offline now.
A
23:43
Armin
In reply to this message
Yes indeed. They also put a sticker over the screen bezel to hide the model number.
Y
23:44
YL3AKC
Do you own this white Compass?
A
23:50
Armin
No, got these from a seller in the US. But I don't think these are interesting enough to import. I think it's just an 1101 with a different paint colour. (Or a 1100 because it seems to be missing a modem)
Y
23:51
YL3AKC
We can solder our own modem. Almost... 😃
👏
A
3 May 2025
u
A
17:38
Armin
17:38
17:39
Hmm looks like it is a Version 4 motherboard. So it might be a 1109
17:41
In reply to this message
Yes there seem to be quite a few of these around. In between listings and pictures online I've seen at least 5 of these.
Y
A
18:20
Armin
Looking trough the hole for the line socket, you can see part of the motherboard. I compared that area to both v3 and v4 motherboards, and v4 seems like a match.
Y
18:26
YL3AKC
For me both v3 and v4 looks the same from PICs...
A
18:33
Armin
Here is v3, the via's are in almost the same spots but the traces are run differently.
Y
18:34
YL3AKC
And close look on v4?
A
Y
18:36
YL3AKC
Hmm... Hard to see on blurry pic thru line jack hole, but... Yes, looks like v4...
11 May 2025
KL
20:45
Kirill Leyfer
Пу пу пу
It's been a while
How's everyone? What did I miss?
It's been a while
How's everyone? What did I miss?
Y
20:46
YL
20:47
Not Compass related, but GRiDcase 1530 modem from another chat.
🔥
KL
20:47
Compass... Not much happened. 😞
KL
20:51
Quick question
I looked at this page a thousand times (nice diagrams and stuff)
https://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/
I know grid doesn't support HP storage devices out of the box, but... Maybe there's a driver out there?
I looked at this page a thousand times (nice diagrams and stuff)
https://www.hp9845.net/9845/projects/hpdrive/
I know grid doesn't support HP storage devices out of the box, but... Maybe there's a driver out there?
Y
u
20:52
usernameak
In reply to this message
i mean... i don't see why it wouldn't be possible to write one
20:52
but definitely not as a boot drive
Y
20:52
YL3AKC
And I am working on brainfuck computer now...
u
20:52
usernameak
In reply to this message
because you can obviously only boot from devices that have drivers in the Compass's ROM
Y
20:53
YL3AKC
KL
Y
20:53
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes and no - in superposition (hello to quantum physics).
🤣
KL
KL
20:54
Kirill Leyfer
A friend of mine just got one on eBay
20:54
Y
20:54
YL3AKC
Yes, because it is kinda similar by desing - both use loop counter for nested loops.
Different - I want it on 74HC series ICs instead of "thermonic valves".
Different - I want it on 74HC series ICs instead of "thermonic valves".
u
20:55
usernameak
In reply to this message
except the fact that HP's interface is way more complicated than GRiD's :)
KL
Y
20:55
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I thin, you need to finish GPiB emulator. If you are using SN75162 IC, you also can make GPiB host and read HP drive with RPi.
KL
Y
20:56
Compared to Compass research...
20:57
Even Compass modem schematics are more useful than brainfuck computer...
KL
20:57
Kirill Leyfer
I mean. The time is not wasted if you're having fun)
Y
.webp)
u
20:59
usernameak
i was doing weird shit a few days ago
was writing a parser for Symbian's database format
was writing a parser for Symbian's database format
21:00
(was trying to extract some app metadata from old Japanese phones)
21:00
i did successfully parse it in the end but hey, it's dang convoluted
KL
21:01
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
That actually is pretty useful. There's kinda little to no tools that do that
One day I had to modify our antivirus engine (yeah we still parse .sis files) just to extract something 😂😂😂
One day I had to modify our antivirus engine (yeah we still parse .sis files) just to extract something 😂😂😂
Y
KL
21:03
Kirill Leyfer
Yeah for some reason DrWeb still detects Cabir from symbian 6 era 😂
Y
21:06
YL3AKC
Nah! Too much brain f**ing with brainfuck computer.
21:06
Need to continue on modem.
21:06
Who want to disassemble modem firmware?
21:07
And yes... @Megabozyakorovka check older messages, pics and videos on this chat...
21:08
I wish I have more time to make external display for GRiD Compass.
u
21:09
usernameak
In reply to this message
> There's kinda little to no tools that do that
there's
there's
pfsdump in the SDK but it dumps raw tables without the structure
Y
u
21:12
usernameak
In reply to this message
and it's funny that one of popular jailbreak exploits on Symbian involves DrWeb :D
Y
KL
Y
21:13
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
@Megabozyakorovka I used checksum calculation code from your GRiD file system library to calculate checksum and make CCPROM bootloader happy.
KL
Y
21:16
YL3AKC
To get an idea how it works and how to boot custom .img
21:16
21:16
21:16
21:16
21:17
u
21:19
usernameak
In reply to this message
if you wonder: a good bunch of Fujitsu and Sharp phones for Japanese market used a heavily-modified version of Symbian
and, among other things, they used
and knowing how that works was useful to figure out (1) how to organize app dumps more or less automatically (2) for future app sideloading stuff
🔥
and, among other things, they used
RDbNamedDatabase Symbian API to manage a bunch of media and app databasesand knowing how that works was useful to figure out (1) how to organize app dumps more or less automatically (2) for future app sideloading stuff
KL
19 May 2025
Y
KL
09:02
6 June 2025
Y
Y
12:56
YL3AKC
С
Старое старьё 18.05.2025 15:15:53
Y
22 June 2025
A
20:02
Found 2 games that were in bubble that I haven't seen before
Y
20:04
YL3AKC
Did you downloaded games and other files from bubble?
👍
A
A
20:04
Armin
Here's a copy for those interested, "othello" and "mastermind", text based versions of the classic board games Reversi and Mastermind
20:06
(this is a full copy of the bubble memory, some files in the programs folder are corrupted, but the games folder should be fine ;)
Y
20:06
YL3AKC
Great catch!
20:07
I need to manage how to make sector based copies for Compass...
A
20:09
Armin
In reply to this message
that would be cool, might help in situations like this, there could be more stuff in bubble but the normal transfer utility errors out on the corrupted sections
Y
20:10
YL3AKC
Still have no idea how to read sectors in ASM on Compass... 😞
23 June 2025
u
03:52
usernameak
In reply to this message
it's not very complicated – all the drivers for that are in the ROM
03:52
but low-level calls are kinda weird-ish and it's easier to do it out of the OS
Y
12:16
YL3AKC
So far I can run only ASM code from bootloader.
12:18
To read sector, there is structure, need to fil this struct correctly in RAM, then push into stack pointer to struct and something more.
Not figured out yet frm bootloader disassembly.
Not figured out yet frm bootloader disassembly.
12:19
Because sooner or later I need to return Compass back to Armin, right now for me priority is to make 1101 schematics.
12:20
I can do other research later.
28 June 2025
V
09:51
Valera K.
I haven't written here in a while. I was looking for a donor for my GRiDPad 2260 to replace the hinge and get a stylus. Also, was getting a GRiDCase 3 Plus from America...
09:51
I had long wanted a GRiDCase 3 Plus. And I found one. There was a great deal on eBay: a fully functional laptop, complete, in perfect condition, at a democratic price. One problem — GRiDs are sold in America, but I live on the Balkans...
So, I had it shipped via USPS, then through Qwintry, and after a couple of months of waiting, arrives...the brick. Perfect, beautiful, untouched, but the brick. This is despite the fact that the laptop was working at the time of shipping.
So, I had it shipped via USPS, then through Qwintry, and after a couple of months of waiting, arrives...the brick. Perfect, beautiful, untouched, but the brick. This is despite the fact that the laptop was working at the time of shipping.
09:51
Disassembly revealed that some connectors had come loose, something was rattling inside, one of the connectors was damaged, and a mounting bracket was broken... Well, I took it apart, inspected it, and partially reassembled it. And this old thing started showing signs of life.
09:51
Yesterday, it made a single beep, supposedly turned on, but the screen didn't light up at all. This morning... be careful, it started making horrible beeps.
09:51
09:51
I can't find any service documentation for it, nothing at all. I don't know what's wrong with it. The sound changes if I remove the ROMs, but any other peripherals have no effect.
09:51
It's truly a story of pain. It seemed like it was packed well, everything, but somewhere during delivery, the laptop was hit, and that was it. Now I have to figure out what's wrong with it.
09:55
For now, I'll reassemble it, pack it in a bag, and take it to storage. There, it will wait until I finish repairing the GRiDPad 2260. But honestly, I don't know which direction to take. It seems I need to look into the BIOS, see what's happening after POST, what the laptop is trying to do, and why it fails...
A
09:55
Armin
Good news is that it does boot, you just can't see it. The "horrible beeping" is the keys being pressed
09:56
Also remove that nimh battery before it starts leaking
V
09:58
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Oh... I accidentally pressed some key with the screen. Ugh. So, it seems like it's more alive! Although, I don't even know where the joy comes from if the screen still doesn't light up...
09:58
In reply to this message
Yes, yes. I don't want to create more problems. Unfortunately, I don't have a soldering iron on hand)
A
09:59
Armin
Have you checked the voltage rails? I think it might be something simple like the screen not getting power.
09:59
Also take a good look at the psu, I've seen these have leaky capacitors before.
10:07
Do you have an external CGA display to test with?
10:13
Another tip, try booting while holding the F key. It should then try to boot from floppy instead of ROM. it should then display that there is no boot media on the display.
👀
V
V
10:18
Valera K.
In reply to this message
No, I haven't checked. The power supply is in good condition — no leaking capacitors, and the connectors are free of corrosion... I need to look for a multimeter and start from there. I thought it didn't even turn on, so I didn't check the screen's power
A
10:20
Armin
In reply to this message
The external monitor port on the Gridcase is IBM CGA compatible. So any CGA compatible diplay would work. (Like ibm 5153 etc.)
V
10:21
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I don't need to look for anything unusual? I'm very glad. I'll check out the local markets
10:21
Can I disassemble the screen? Maybe something came loose there as well. Or is everything soldered in place? After all, it was working before shipping.
A
10:27
Armin
In reply to this message
Maybe, I haven't had problems with these displays myself. But it can't hurt to look for a bad connection.
To dissasemble the display. You need to remove the 2 screws on the side, and pull out the plastic cable covers from the display. Then you can remove the front plastic panel.
To dissasemble the display. You need to remove the 2 screws on the side, and pull out the plastic cable covers from the display. Then you can remove the front plastic panel.
10:29
V
10:31
Valera K.
I've been trying to disassemble it for about 10 minutes now. Those screws don't move. I'll go give it another try. Thank you!
V
11:31
Valera K.
Removing the plastic cover on screws was very difficult. Inside, the screen and connector are intact, and the cable is in place. No problems. I will return to my workshop in a week, check the voltages and try to connect an external monitor.
11:32
For now, I can't do anything else
Y
11:37
YL3AKC
Offtopic: I got 1st request to join from spammer. p0rn...
V
11:40
Пока что я продолжу систематизировать твой архив по гридам для последующей публикации. Над этим я работал последний месяц...
V
12:57
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Meh. I was finishing the assembly and touched something with my hand and the screen started to turn on
12:58
Old computers magic
Y
13:09
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Sounds like a story about PDP-11 with switch labeled "<=Magic More magic=>"
A
Y
13:15
YL3AKC
Probably need to change display cables...
V
Y
13:16
YL3AKC
Need to find the same connectors and make wire harness.
13:17
Or at leas "beep" cables and inspect connectors on PCBs for cracks and resolder if necessary.
13:18
If you'll do it slowly and with patience you can do it clean and nice.
A
Y
13:21
YL3AKC
🖖🏾
10 August 2025
Y
21:19
YL3AKC
@ConventionalMemories please open VCF forum. There is question about keyboard conductive layer repair.
A
23 August 2025
V
12:24
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Oh, I don't know, why isn't my screen working? Hmm, it's a real mystery...
12:25
During the disassembly of the power supply, a transistor fell out.
Y
12:27
YL3AKC
Hmm, Main compass PSU?
V
12:28
Valera K.
After a reeeally long time, I finally made up my mind and took apart the GRiDCase 3 again. I took all the voltage measurements. All the voltages are present except for +33 volts on display. I don't know how to repair power supplies, but I still decided to take it apart and inspect every component... Well, so I took it apart. I unscrewed the transistor from the heat sink, and it just fell right into my hands. It's broken perfectly at the leg bend
Y
12:29
YL3AKC
I am out of my home office again. Maybe tomorrow I'll check more deeply with working PSU and give advice how to correctly diagnose and repair your PSU. Please stand by.
12:29
AHH, you have gridcase...
12:30
This make things more complicated for me.
V
12:30
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Honestly, I think I should start by putting the transistor back in place. What if it starts working? It worked before transportation, after all
Y
12:30
YL3AKC
What if you damage even more?
V
12:32
In reply to this message
I don't have a compass. I really want one, but I don't know where to buy it and how to get it delivered to the Serbia
12:34
USPS sucks
Y
12:34
YL3AKC
Good engineer try to answer question: why component failed before change it and turn on again. Simple change and hope it will work is really bad idea.
12:35
Get some patience and not hurry with repair.
V
13:01
Valera K.
Простите, отвечу по-русски. Я проверил, транзистор жив и изначально был установлен с сильным загибом ног. Удивительно, как долго оно проработало. Я припаял его к оторванным ногам и...
13:01
13:01
Оно живое! Оно включается! А дальше зависает. Реакции на клавиатуру нет, чего-то не хватает.
Попробую подождать, может это загрузка такая долгая
Попробую подождать, может это загрузка такая долгая
Y
13:33
YL3AKC
You are lucky!
13:33
But, anyway, I'll worry about PSU.
V
13:34
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I don't understand how delivery could kill a working laptop...
13:35
The PSU also confuses me, in some places the soldering doesn't look good, and +33 volts with turned on the screen falls down to +27
13:35
There is a response to the keyboard, it beeps. But it never loaded anywhere...
Y
13:37
YL3AKC
Try to ask for service manual/schematics in VCF. Even if you get schematics from other model, PSU is similar, so, good starting point for diagnostics.
13:38
Just got back home from touring. Started on Wednesday...
V
13:43
In reply to this message
Maybe @ConventionalMemories has an idea what can laptop wait for? It has a blinking cursor and sometimes beeps on pressing keys
A
22:21
Armin
Is it the HDD model gridase 3?
22:22
It is probably trying to boot from hdd or eprom. Try pressing F at boot, then it should try to boot from floppy. And then it will give you at least a non valid disk error or something
22:26
In reply to this message
AFAIK, there are no service manuals available anywhere, probably because GRiD did all repairs at their own service center. But can't hurt to ask
V
22:42
Valera K.
My GRiDCase 3 version without a hard drive, but with floppy.
If I don't press anything or press R my laptop boots from ROM. ROM is the 2 chips with MS DOS 3.21. GRiDCase read chips successfully, shows the version and waiting something...
Before laptop have sent to me after turning on, after copyright, the laptop asked for the correct date and then display standard does prompt.
But now, no prompt, nothing.
I can try to remove the bios battery and replace. Maybe after reset I will get something new...
If I don't press anything or press R my laptop boots from ROM. ROM is the 2 chips with MS DOS 3.21. GRiDCase read chips successfully, shows the version and waiting something...
Before laptop have sent to me after turning on, after copyright, the laptop asked for the correct date and then display standard does prompt.
But now, no prompt, nothing.
I can try to remove the bios battery and replace. Maybe after reset I will get something new...
22:42
My foppy does not work because the belt is rotten. But if I pressed F after POST, it really tried to load from broken floppy... And displays boot medium error, of course
22:43
In reply to this message
I also have external 2203 disc system, but without power supply. I didn't found any user manual for it and don't know how to use it
22:45
In reply to this message
I dug through my entire archive of documentation for GRID and I did not find a single manual for GRiDCase 3, except the owners guide manual (useless manual, btw)
23:00
In reply to this message
Without the battery, the laptop turned on, reached the copyright, rebooted, reached the copyright again and that's it.
All the motherboard power supplies are normal, I won't go into the PSU anymore for now.
I'll go read the ROMs and read what happens in MS DOS between the copyright and the date question...
And I'll try to fix internal floppy drive to try to boot from it. Unfortunately, I don't have any new belts at hand now
All the motherboard power supplies are normal, I won't go into the PSU anymore for now.
I'll go read the ROMs and read what happens in MS DOS between the copyright and the date question...
And I'll try to fix internal floppy drive to try to boot from it. Unfortunately, I don't have any new belts at hand now
A
23:13
Armin
In reply to this message
You should be able to power the 2203 from the laptop. You only need the power station. If you have multiple external floppy/hard drives.
If it does not work. Try powering the gridcase trough the barrel plug. The ac adapter installed in the battery compartiment had power draw limitations so auxiliary power can only be supplied when powered trough the barrel jack on some models. (I've only seen this on my gridcase 3 plus, but maybe some original gridcases also had the modification)
If it does not work. Try powering the gridcase trough the barrel plug. The ac adapter installed in the battery compartiment had power draw limitations so auxiliary power can only be supplied when powered trough the barrel jack on some models. (I've only seen this on my gridcase 3 plus, but maybe some original gridcases also had the modification)
23:14
In reply to this message
I have a copy of the roms from mine on my home PC, I can send you it for comparison tomorrow, not at home right now
V
23:20
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I have an external power supply for my laptop. And the 2203 system disk connected to the laptop via a thick 100500 pin cable shows no signs of life... I'm not ready to deal with it yet. I think that after so many years the belt there is rotten too.
23:20
For now I'll try to run my laptop via ROM
23:21
I want to buy new chips and flash them with some ROM from my collection of other people's ROMs
A
23:22
Armin
Long Pin headers in rom reader and lots of pressure. And multiple read attempts
23:23
You can make your own ccos and ms dos, program and boot roms, with GRiDs rombuild program. Should find it online with some googling.
23:24
It used to be in the now long dead GRiD yahoo group. Many backups of that group online.
23:25
I also have a copy if you can't find it
V
23:25
Valera K.
In reply to this message
YL3AKC once helped me and shared his files. So there are no problems here. The most important thing is to buy compatible chips and flash them via TL866
A
23:27
Armin
In reply to this message
You can also find a 3d model of the rom holder online. I printed some on my home printer, but you could also order some nice sla prints
V
A
23:28
Armin
Not at home, on phone, can't check.
V
23:29
Valera K.
23:29
A
23:29
Armin
Yes, that's the one
V
23:30
Valera K.
If you know, who is model's author? I want to retain authorship..
A
23:32
Armin
No idea, I remember it also being around in the yahoo group, so idk. It is not optimised for 3d printing. It might be straight from the manufacturer, 3M I think
V
23:33
Valera K.
Ok, thank you very much!
A
V
23:47
Valera K.
I'm unlikely to make any progress with GRiDCase anytime soon. Of course, I'll order EEPROMs and floppy disk belts (GRiDPad 2260 has the same problem)... But for now, I have another priorities.
23:48
My priorities are to rebuild GRiDPad 2260 and add an FPU to it (I found one) and finish Kirill's PENDRAW.exe revers
23:49
Somewhere in between continue structuring the information archive for all GRiDs and start making a website for this whole nightmare. I'm making slow progress, but for example, yesterday I almost finished going through all the InteGRiD versions I know and deleting duplicates, leaving only working and full versions. For fun, I even launched UA571C on my Thinkpad T41 (with Windows 98 on board). Just for fun. But I believe that someday I'll have Compass and after buying it I won't waste time searching for software, but will simply take it from the folder, copy it, and be happy. As far as I can see, no one has written Dino on GRiD on PL/M yet, what a horror. As they say, I'll be back in six months)
23:50
I don't know why, but I really like the GRiDPad 2260 and I want to spend more time with it
24 August 2025
V
09:24
This morning, before I put the laptop on the shelf from the table, I thought that I needed to take another closer look at the board under the keyboard...
I continued to disassemble the laptop and looked into. And I noticed that one of the RAM strips was slightly higher than the others. at first I thought it was a bad soldering: there are a lot of traces of flux here and at first it seemed to me that they were soldered to the board. But no, they are on the connectors. I inserted the RAM stick properly and вау, the laptop booted. Awesome
I continued to disassemble the laptop and looked into. And I noticed that one of the RAM strips was slightly higher than the others. at first I thought it was a bad soldering: there are a lot of traces of flux here and at first it seemed to me that they were soldered to the board. But no, they are on the connectors. I inserted the RAM stick properly and вау, the laptop booted. Awesome
09:24
A
13:18
Armin
Good job. My gridcases all have a foam strip on the underside of the keyboard to keep pressure on the sipp's from the factory. But I don't see one on yours.
13:19
Btw, these are standard 30pin sipp modules, with the pins bend 90deg
31 August 2025
V
10:38
Valera K.
@YL3AKC привет, подскажи, где можно найти самые последнии версии эмуляторов? У меня сейчас лежит в папках несколько версий MAME64, какой-то патченный XTulator и что-то самописное на SDL + GPiB эмуль незавершённый... Я хочу сохранить самые последние версии в какую-нибудь организацию на GitHub и положить в свой архив с описанием. Но мне для этого нужно твоё одобрение и 2-3 слова про текущее состояние эмуляции гридов
10:40
Ну и в целом, можно ли спрашивать тебя публично о каких-то файлах и софте? Ты больше всех реверсил и ковырял компасы, да и файлы от тебя...
Y
10:42
MAME? Hmm... @usernameak kinda working version. From http://old-dos.ru/index.php?page=files&mode=files&do=show&id=7752
10:43
That's all what I have regarding GRiD compass emulators.
10:44
In reply to this message
Just do with it whatever you want. If you done something interesting, you can do pull request and I'll add it. After review...
👍
V
10:46
Right now I stuck with x86 disassembly/trace in emulator and... That's main reason why I am silent now. No motivation... 😞
10:46
From time to time I am do some coding for Orbiter Spaceflight simulator.
Y
Y
10:47
YL3AKC
I am doing software stuff, Phil is doing hadware....
👀
V
Y
Y
10:48
YL3AKC
P
Phil 05.08.2025 22:04:11
Meanwhile, Just done the hud front panel, 1st try, cool, but no cigar.. hot spots and text is not crisp enough, will try another methode
10:48
u
11:13
usernameak
In reply to this message
> Но мне для этого нужно твоё одобрение
патчи для MAME делал я и ещё один человек которого (как я понимаю) нет в этом чате. я одобряю :)
в мейнлайне MAME самая стабильная версия что у меня была
патчи для MAME делал я и ещё один человек которого (как я понимаю) нет в этом чате. я одобряю :)
в мейнлайне MAME самая стабильная версия что у меня была
V
11:16
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Извини, я совсем запутался, кто что делал в этом мире GRiD. Я привык, что обычно YL3AKC всё ковыряет)
11:16
In reply to this message
О, твои наработки влили и мне больше не нужно держать копию эмулятора у себя?
Y
11:17
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I am doing only XTulator based GRiD compass emlulator:
https://github.com/JDat/GRiDemulator
https://github.com/JDat/GRiDemulator
u
Y
u
11:18
usernameak
In reply to this message
(по моему там были попытки завести HDD+флоппик одновременно по GPIB и фиксы на разрешение у 1139)
11:19
In reply to this message
well i just added GPIB drive and DMA support and some fixes :)
kudos for the original work goes to another person... whose name i don't remember
kudos for the original work goes to another person... whose name i don't remember
Y
1 September 2025
KL
00:02
Kirill Leyfer
Okay, now for the hard part...
Y
V
KL
08:42
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
I'm trying to make a BPK-72 replica
That's the bubble board in Intel's prototype kit
That's the bubble board in Intel's prototype kit
Y
09:57
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Quite complicated to build bubble controller from scratch...
Maybe it is better to remove Z80 from board, make piggyback PCB adapter and stick it into Z80 socket. Connect Arduino Mega and do magic with Arduino pins in this way.
Maybe it is better to remove Z80 from board, make piggyback PCB adapter and stick it into Z80 socket. Connect Arduino Mega and do magic with Arduino pins in this way.
09:58
Basically you need to talk from Arduino with i7220 chip.
10:00
Here is project to for low level bubble formatting. It can read/write/format bubble from arduino.
https://wiki.unix-haters.org/doku.php?id=grid:rebubbling
✍
https://wiki.unix-haters.org/doku.php?id=grid:rebubbling
KL
KL
KL
Y
10:01
YL3AKC
Dealing with supply stuff and other semi-analog things on bubble are complicated.
I can drop all necessary Intel 1981 documentation about bubble stuff.
I can drop all necessary Intel 1981 documentation about bubble stuff.
KL
Y
KL
10:06
Y
10:08
In reply to this message
When you have this, it's looks much easier... But dealing with high current 12V things... Need fat traces on PCB.
KL
10:10
Kirill Leyfer
The fun part? Found 'em locally, in Moscow
They were likely imported back in '83 by some soviet research facility, along with prototype kit and PDP-11 boards
Maybe to test. Maybe to copy. No one knows
All I know is that prototype kit is marked with "проект 'Домен'" (project "domain") as bubble memory is called "cylindrical magnetic domains memory" in Russian, and the date is '83
They were likely imported back in '83 by some soviet research facility, along with prototype kit and PDP-11 boards
Maybe to test. Maybe to copy. No one knows
All I know is that prototype kit is marked with "проект 'Домен'" (project "domain") as bubble memory is called "cylindrical magnetic domains memory" in Russian, and the date is '83
10:11
Y
10:12
Can you show dev board again?
KL
10:12
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Полный комплект BPK-72
Получен из "ЭВП" по акту 3.10.83г.
К контракту 54-06/15194 по "Домену"
Получен из "ЭВП" по акту 3.10.83г.
К контракту 54-06/15194 по "Домену"
Y
10:12
YL3AKC
I mean... photo of dev board.
KL
10:14
Kirill Leyfer
10:15
Below is 7220 with some extra STUFF around it
Y
10:17
Lower board looks like it missing electrolytic capacitors...
10:20
In reply to this message
That "extra stuff" is kinda semi-analog magic. An they must be placed as close as possible to 7110 bubble.
KL
10:22
In reply to this message
The only thing is that I don't wanna use the original board, and preserve it as-is
That's why I'm making a replica
Also, if I wanna preserve everything, including the original 7110 socket, I have to make a custom socket for 7110
Good thing I have a 3d printer
That's why I'm making a replica
Also, if I wanna preserve everything, including the original 7110 socket, I have to make a custom socket for 7110
Good thing I have a 3d printer
Y
10:22
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Then... It's like soldering kit... Just take components and solder them.
What if you build adapter board for edge connector?
What if you build adapter board for edge connector?
10:23
Ahh, got it!
KL
10:23
Kirill Leyfer
And while I'm making a replica anyway, I can populate the replica board with a socket for Arduino or similar controller
Y
10:23
YL3AKC
Emm, yes...
10:24
Just try to place "magic" components on replica in the same way as on original board if possible.
🫡
KL
10:25
Also it is not recommended to use IC sockets on high power pins in bubble to avoid unnecessary problems.
KL
11:04
Kirill Leyfer
QSB-11 has all the ICs socketed
But yeah, everything is packed tightly together, and 12v lines are pretty fat
But yeah, everything is packed tightly together, and 12v lines are pretty fat
Y
11:15
Anyway, I worry because there is ~1 Amp current going thru IC socket...
11:15
But if it works, you can do the same.
KL
11:46
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
That's not good. What's a usual pogo pin power rating?
I tried to find DIP leaf spring contacts, as in the original 7110 socket online with no luck. The only option I found is pogo pins. But now I doubt they can pull it off
I tried to find DIP leaf spring contacts, as in the original 7110 socket online with no luck. The only option I found is pogo pins. But now I doubt they can pull it off
Y
11:51
YL3AKC
Pogo pins... Hmm... Not sure (don't know), but my 6th sense tells - it's bad idea.
11:53
What about hacking these DIP panels for 7110?
11:54
Or... 7110 pin diameter is too big and not fit into these DIP sockets?
KL
12:26
Kirill Leyfer
7110's pins are flat
12:27
More like contact pads than pins
Y
12:28
YL3AKC
What about flat DIP panels or pin headers?
12:28
12:29
12:30
But pin headers have less current capacity.
KL
12:46
Kirill Leyfer
By flat I mean uh... Flat) 1sec
12:47
That's how 7110 pins look like
So socket for 7110 has flat leaf-like springs for each pin
So socket for 7110 has flat leaf-like springs for each pin
Y
12:48
YL3AKC
So, no soldering pins on your bubbles?
12:48
Or you just want spare soldering pins to exchange bubbles without "pain"?
KL
12:49
Kirill Leyfer
correct, that's why I want to make a custom socket for 7110
I have one with my prototype kit, but as I said, I want to preserve it as-is
I have one with my prototype kit, but as I said, I want to preserve it as-is
12:49
Current Rating
The current rating of pogo pins depends on both size and material. A standard 1.0 mm gold-plated pogo pin typically supports currents of 2-3 amps, while larger 2.0 mm pins can handle up to 6 amps. Be sure to match the pin's current rating to your application's needs to prevent overheating or connection failure
https://www.attend.com.tw/en/news.php?act=view&id=131
well, let's hope they're not lying
Y
12:50
YL3AKC
Then... Sounds like I need to open 1101 and look on bubbles to get an idea to to hack into connector for bubbles.
KL
12:51
Kirill Leyfer
Meanwhile I'll try to build my 3d-printed pogo-pinned contraption and hope for the best
Y
KL
12:52
Kirill Leyfer
fun part: Pins on the left are higher than pins on the right. Good luck future me building socket for that
Y
12:53
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Sounds like an idea. Only thing. Make pogo pin holes smaller and then use drill bit to make them into correct size.
Or hear pogo pins with soldering iron and the push into plastic.
Or hear pogo pins with soldering iron and the push into plastic.
KL
Y
12:53
YL3AKC
Regarding power, I recommend to get meanwell 5V and 12V PSUs.
KL
12:54
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
I'm planning to use 12V from type-C power delivery and convert it down to 5v
12:55
In reply to this message
I'm planning to get my pogo pins inside plastic headers
The plastic in header is usually more heat-resisting that default PLA for 3d prints, so I can solder pogo pin-headers in, and then design my PLA socket with large rectangular holes accomodating plastic pogo pin headers
This way I won't damage PLA socket while soldering it
The plastic in header is usually more heat-resisting that default PLA for 3d prints, so I can solder pogo pin-headers in, and then design my PLA socket with large rectangular holes accomodating plastic pogo pin headers
This way I won't damage PLA socket while soldering it
Y
KL
12:56
Kirill Leyfer
solder that first, attach PLA socket for 7110 later
Y
KL
Y
12:58
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
How clean is voltage and warranty for delivering 2-3 Amps instantly (in few microseconds).
Yes, I am paranoid in electronics...
Yes, I am paranoid in electronics...
12:59
Electrolytic capacitors close to power hungry consumer help to deliver necessary current really fast.
13:01
In general I don't trust to medern PD PSUs because... They are OK to use in laptop or smartphone because smartphone/laptop can deal with noisy PSU.
But it's just theory.
But it's just theory.
KL
13:02
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Fair enough. I'm not a specialist in eletronics, so I will listen to the wise old man
Should I use two separate PSUs than?
Should I use two separate PSUs than?
Y
13:04
I don't like when PSU is cause of non working electronic project.