GRiD Compass
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1 September 2025
KL
13:04
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
I can check how PD + converter combo performs by itself and under load using oscilloscope, if you're curious how noisy and fast it is
Y
13:05
YL3AKC
But... Anyway you must start somehow with Bench PSU with current limit. Nobody like when magic smoke come out of rare and old ICs.
🫡
KL
13:06
In reply to this message
I am so old that I don't have any PD PSU... I am still using microUSB on my devices... 😃
13:11
BTW, two more questions:
1) Any recommendations to write TCp client in C?
I just need program who tries to connect to server. Usually client runs before server starts. So connect stuff.
Then client must decet if server disconnecet, correctly close TCP socket and try to connect again. I need almost every error handling.
2) hard question: What about GPiB FDD emulator on RPi?
1) Any recommendations to write TCp client in C?
I just need program who tries to connect to server. Usually client runs before server starts. So connect stuff.
Then client must decet if server disconnecet, correctly close TCP socket and try to connect again. I need almost every error handling.
2) hard question: What about GPiB FDD emulator on RPi?
KL
13:41
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Haven't touched it since I've built your board ((
Didn't even test it
Didn't even test it
Y
14:01
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Mkey... I am trying, but not have enough Force! That old TCP socket handling stuff is so... So much support code for making nonblocking socket and handling all possible and impossible errors...
Y
15:16
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Nah! I think I kinda beat and win TCP socket programming stuff... That was f... adventure.
🔥
KL
5 September 2025
A
12:46
Armin
Quick question, does anyone know how to low level format a hdd on the Compass?
12:47
Only thing I can find is initialize media, but that also automatically creates a partition.
12:48
I want to create multiple partitions in fdisk, but that requires me to have a blank disk first.
Y
12:49
YL3AKC
And... You have only GPiB interface?
12:50
Quick answer: no software, or I don't remember any.
12:50
Maybe there is something in HDD mages.
A
12:51
Armin
Well I could maybe try on a desktop pc with mfm controller. But I don't have one assembled and ready to go.
Y
12:52
YL3AKC
What about MS-DOS 2.11 on Compass and fdisk from MS-DOS ?
A
12:53
Armin
In the grid ms dos manual, it explains how to set up multiple partitions for CCOS/Dos. But they start with a blank hdd. Nowhere it is explained how to delete any partition.
12:53
And fdisk can only delete ms dos partitions
Y
12:53
YL3AKC
do MS-DOS 2.11 compass have fdisk ?
A
12:53
Armin
Yes
Y
12:53
YL3AKC
ahh
12:53
maybe need to tinker with debug.exe?
12:54
Hard, but possible.
A
12:54
Armin
Fdisk gives me this error. No idea if it is related to the already existing partitions
Y
12:56
YL3AKC
basically you need to read 1st sector on HDD using int13h. Need to write simple assembly code inside debug.
12:56
Then inspect it.
u
Y
12:57
YL3AKC
After that, it is possible to fill 512 bytes in RAM with 00h and write them into HDD.
u
12:57
usernameak
In reply to this message
figured that out when it started sending the low-level format to disk controller when i was debugging the emulator
A
12:58
Armin
In reply to this message
So maybe is i turn off the compass after the low level, before it partitions it would work.
u
12:58
usernameak
In reply to this message
(note that GRiD's GPIB drives, on the outside, are more like SCSI/IDE than MFM)
A
13:00
Armin
Yeah, mine has a sasi to mfm adapter board inside
A
15:13
Armin
Weird thing after just a normal run of the drive initialisation program. The drive shows up as only 2096 free. Weird as its a 20mb drive
15:14
I think it might not like the 20mb rom in my 2101
Y
15:15
YL3AKC
Or... That software is for floppies...
A
15:17
Armin
Yeah maybe, I just copied 2 disks of data onto the hdd, and it still shows 2029 free. So idk.
15:17
Math doesn't really add up there.
15:22
Maybe the program just doesn't know how to display the full 20MB
15:29
Looking online it seems MS-DOS 2.xx only supports drives upto 10MB, so that might explain my fdisk issues.
15:30
Now I wonder how they managed to get 2 partitions on this 2101 originally.
Y
15:31
YL3AKC
I think, I saw some source code on you 20MB disk image.
A
16:06
Armin
yes, it seems there is source code for the initialise media program
16:08
also source code for something called CCDiskDriver
16:11
seems like it is the driver for the HDD "CCCOS Winchester driver implements mass storage device driver using the xebec s1410 5-1/4" winchester controller over the Compasss Central Peripheral Bus"
Y
A
16:22
Armin
I have no idea what it does tho.
also found these parameters hardcoded in there:
SetDiskParms : PROCEDURE (driveselect) CLEAN;
DCL driveselect BYTE;
DCL message (32) BYTE DATA ('Peripheral Bus Driver, 300178-01');
DiskParms(driveselect).devicePageSize = 512;
DiskParms(driveselect).sectorsPerTrack = 17;
DiskParms(driveselect).tracksPerCylinder = 4;
DiskParms(driveselect).numCylinders = 306;
DiskParms(driveselect).writeCurrentCyl = 128;
DiskParms(driveselect).preCompCyl = 128;
DiskParms(driveselect).eccBurstLength = 11;
DiskParms(driveselect).interleaveFactor = 6;
DiskParms(driveselect).controlfield = 027h;
DiskParms(driveselect).numSectorsTrans = 1;
DiskParms(driveselect).pagesize = 512;
DiskParms(driveselect).logicalPageSize = 504;
DiskParms(driveselect).maxLogicalPages = 20808;
DiskParms(driveselect).deviceBitMapFID = 02400h;
DiskParms(driveselect).deviceDirectoryFID = 02420h;
DiskParms(driveselect).dirPages = 10;
CALL MOVB (@message(0),@DiskParms(driveselect).message(0),32);
END SetDiskParms;
also found these parameters hardcoded in there:
SetDiskParms : PROCEDURE (driveselect) CLEAN;
DCL driveselect BYTE;
DCL message (32) BYTE DATA ('Peripheral Bus Driver, 300178-01');
DiskParms(driveselect).devicePageSize = 512;
DiskParms(driveselect).sectorsPerTrack = 17;
DiskParms(driveselect).tracksPerCylinder = 4;
DiskParms(driveselect).numCylinders = 306;
DiskParms(driveselect).writeCurrentCyl = 128;
DiskParms(driveselect).preCompCyl = 128;
DiskParms(driveselect).eccBurstLength = 11;
DiskParms(driveselect).interleaveFactor = 6;
DiskParms(driveselect).controlfield = 027h;
DiskParms(driveselect).numSectorsTrans = 1;
DiskParms(driveselect).pagesize = 512;
DiskParms(driveselect).logicalPageSize = 504;
DiskParms(driveselect).maxLogicalPages = 20808;
DiskParms(driveselect).deviceBitMapFID = 02400h;
DiskParms(driveselect).deviceDirectoryFID = 02420h;
DiskParms(driveselect).dirPages = 10;
CALL MOVB (@message(0),@DiskParms(driveselect).message(0),32);
END SetDiskParms;
16:22
those match a 10MB disk. don't really understand what this driver does tho.
u
A
A
17:19
Armin
hmm found a program called "mediapartition" on the same hdd image
17:19
i'll give that a go
A
17:43
Armin
Looks promising, I can make and delete partitions it seems.
17:47
Wow I haven't seen this documented anywhere. I can make up to 4 partitions and choose which one to boot when booting from HDD
u
17:49
usernameak
In reply to this message
seen that string
it's actually a feature of the bootloader that's written on the HDD, not part of PROM or anything :)
it's actually a feature of the bootloader that's written on the HDD, not part of PROM or anything :)
A
17:51
Armin
Really cool, I hadn't come across this in any of the grid documentation. This is really useful if you share a drive between compass 1 and 2 systems.
A
18:19
Armin
Fdisk still throws an error, but i think that's down to ms dos 2.11 not supporting 20mb disks
Y
18:21
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
This is what I mentioned earlier today, but don't remember details. I saw it as file in my folder when searched for GRiD boot sector source code.
A
18:26
Armin
In reply to this message
Ohh, yeah hadn't heard of the program, wasn't on any of my ccos floppies
6 September 2025
KL
18:34
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Ok. changed this def*cker a bit (changed pin locations to adapt for pogo pins) and ordered it
Will see
Will see
KL
20:29
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
As far as I can see, max current is around ~150mA (1.7w 12v)
Y
21:09
YL3AKC
Peak power can be more.
21:22
BKP-70 kit ~ 5W => ~0.5 Amps @12V + 1.5W => 0.3 Amps @ 5W
21:23
Add margin for peaks x2 or x3
7 September 2025
A
02:34
Armin
Has anyone ever tried the media repair program? I'm hoping to recover more of the files from the corrupted bubble memory of my 1109. But it doesn't seem to make any progress.
A
05:28
Armin
Another question, are we still missing parts of the development environment? I was talking with a collector that has 2 2101 disc systems which he claims was used for software development. No idea what's on them, he doesn't have a working system.
But I might try and loan them if you guys think we are still missing stuff.
But I might try and loan them if you guys think we are still missing stuff.
05:30
They came with grid manuals for fortran, pascal, basic and development tools. So that's probably what's on them.
u
05:33
usernameak
i'm pretty sure the assembler we had was corrupted and we didn't have a Fortran compiler (might be wrong though), at least?
A
09:04
Armin
Found out why the memory of my 1109 is corrupted. Apparently one of the 3 bubble modules wasn't seated all the way. So now one of the 3 isn't working. When formatting it throws all bad sectors for the one module.
09:05
Is the module dead, or is this something low level formatting might be able to fix
V
10:15
In reply to this message
I don't know. I have several disk images in my archive, but I need to check how well the utilities work. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten around to it yet. But you can do it if you want...
10:15
If anyone else has hard drives, I'd be happy to get dumps and save them for history
10:20
I think it's possible to write a working program with all this, after all, tschak909 made UA571C?
https://github.com/tschak909/UA571C
https://github.com/tschak909/UA571C
Y
12:30
In reply to this message
Maybe you can put this Compass on hold until I rewrite repair/low level bubble formatting tool in assembler for Compass. Then boot from FDD and you can do the same as arduino, but without removimg bubbles from compass...
A
13:57
Seems like we have most of the development software. I'll see if I can maybe dump his drives to make sure, but not that important.
14:05
In reply to this message
That would be great. If you think it's possible. Yeah, I can live with only 2 bubble modules for now. It still formats the other 2 ok. Just marks bad sectors when it gets to the 3rd.
Y
14:13
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I think it's possible. Imagine if you boot from FDD (real or image) without CCOS.
You have full control of Compass now.
You can disable interrupts. Just in case...
Then you can access 7220 directly with ASM code.
And that ASM code sends the same commands to 7220 as Arduino code by sabur
8086 become kinda arduino and run your code. Great thing that 8086 already connected with 7220. So you don't need to wire or solder anything between "Arduino" (actually 8086) and controller board. Also you already have good PSU inside Compass and don't need to thing about that.
Problem: need to get motivation and time.
Right now I am wasting time on something completely different.
You have full control of Compass now.
You can disable interrupts. Just in case...
Then you can access 7220 directly with ASM code.
And that ASM code sends the same commands to 7220 as Arduino code by sabur
8086 become kinda arduino and run your code. Great thing that 8086 already connected with 7220. So you don't need to wire or solder anything between "Arduino" (actually 8086) and controller board. Also you already have good PSU inside Compass and don't need to thing about that.
Problem: need to get motivation and time.
Right now I am wasting time on something completely different.
14:14
14:15
I am working with @UncleSmith1 on Orbiter simulator external hardware.
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/the-universal-flight-simulator.37819/page-8#post-632238
https://www.orbiter-forum.com/threads/the-universal-flight-simulator.37819/page-8#post-632238
A
Y
14:44
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Before started interesting about GRiD Compass, I wanted to build physical cabin (simpit0 for my favorite space simulator named Orbiter.
I made some research with existing addons for simulator, and concluded that it is possible, but need time and money. I even build some proof og concept hardware like external MultiFunctional Display (MFD), it run on Praspberry Pi, connect to Orbiter software via LAN. Then Arduino also connected to Orbiter via LAN and get/set some parameters. I stopped on this project approx on March 2022. Because lack of time.
BTW. On 2021 Orbiter source code was released to public.
After Somewhere on 2022 watched (wasted time) on Youtube and saw @Megabozyakorovka videos about GRiD Compass. That inspired me to dive deep into Compass architecture.
BTW I am not Electronics nerd but also kinda Space nerd. Both Orbiter and GRiD Compass nicely fit into my field of interests. GRiD Compass - because it flied on Space Shuttle, and because it has interesting architecture compared to IBM PC.
I made some research with existing addons for simulator, and concluded that it is possible, but need time and money. I even build some proof og concept hardware like external MultiFunctional Display (MFD), it run on Praspberry Pi, connect to Orbiter software via LAN. Then Arduino also connected to Orbiter via LAN and get/set some parameters. I stopped on this project approx on March 2022. Because lack of time.
BTW. On 2021 Orbiter source code was released to public.
After Somewhere on 2022 watched (wasted time) on Youtube and saw @Megabozyakorovka videos about GRiD Compass. That inspired me to dive deep into Compass architecture.
BTW I am not Electronics nerd but also kinda Space nerd. Both Orbiter and GRiD Compass nicely fit into my field of interests. GRiD Compass - because it flied on Space Shuttle, and because it has interesting architecture compared to IBM PC.
14:47
Thanks to burnout I returned to Orbiter stuff and help Phil Smith with his Head Up Display (HUD) hardware now. As you can see in video, I managed to get HUD drawing on external (Linux) computer, what is connected to Orbiter via LAN. Exactly what is needed.
Y
15:11
YL3AKC
BTW When researched Compass disassembled CCPROM, I got suggestion in Youtube from Usagi Electric channel. Probably because I watching CuriousMarc and Adrian's Digital Basement videos. Usagi have video about his Centurion research/repair. In video where he tinkering with boot rom and diagnostic card for Centurion, I got an guess about production test ROM located in C000:0000 in Compass address space. CCPROM early in boot process check for singature "ETHP" in C000:0000 and if signature is valid, jumps to C000:0004
12 September 2025
KL
Y
09:40
YL3AKC
Cool!
KL
Y
09:45
Emm... I am at work now and I am really busy... 😃
Y
KL
Y
09:53
YL3AKC
It is important thing when you fly into Space.
09:56
This is GameDev in my style. External HUD working. Need to fix speed vector mathematics.
This happens over TCP connection between Windows computer aka server with running Orbiter Simulator (on right) and Linux computer aka client SDL2 software (on left).
This happens over TCP connection between Windows computer aka server with running Orbiter Simulator (on right) and Linux computer aka client SDL2 software (on left).
10:03
18 September 2025
Y
17:54
YL3AKC
Have no motivation, but looks like I need to continue with Compass 1101 schematics...
19 September 2025
A
00:02
Armin
Maybe this can be some motivation to look into compass again and play aroundwith some new software. I just got all of these. They will need good cleaning before I can dump them, they all suffer from disk rot.
Y
05:09
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Nice one! Maybe tomorrow I'll try to work on Compass 1101 schematics.
V
09:43
Oh, sorry, I (sleepy) read that you'd already dumped and cleaned them. Once you're done, please create a dump. A raw one would be fine, using FluxEngine or something...
A
11:45
Armin
Slowly working trough them. It's a lot of work but I think I can save most of them.
I'm using my kryoflux for raw flux files and then I use hxc to look at all the bad sectors so I know which parts of the disk to clean more, then dump again and combine the tracks from multiple dumps until I have one with no bad sectors.
Also have to clean the drive heads between each dump because the disks are deteriorating.
🔥
I'm using my kryoflux for raw flux files and then I use hxc to look at all the bad sectors so I know which parts of the disk to clean more, then dump again and combine the tracks from multiple dumps until I have one with no bad sectors.
Also have to clean the drive heads between each dump because the disks are deteriorating.
V
Y
Y
13:40
YL3AKC
Wow! That's a serious and complicated restoration work!
A
14:05
Armin
Yes, but I'm having fun. Just slowly working trough them all.
They look like Swiss cheese when I'm done with them. But it's working. So far I have done about 10 disks without any missing data.
They look like Swiss cheese when I'm done with them. But it's working. So far I have done about 10 disks without any missing data.
14:06
This is after I'm done with them.
14:06
(Yes, that's light shining trough the disk)
14:15
Btw, I'm also trying to organise all the other compass software I have from various places online but I'm still missing a lot. Would you guys mind sharing the compass software you have? Tnx
14:16
I think T Tron has a lot archived, but i haven't been able to reach him (yet)
V
14:16
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I've been working on this recently. If you help me, I'll be very grateful. I can give you access to the SFTP server by this evening
14:17
I have 3-4 copies of the same thing, and each file has to be diffed and assigned to a specific folder... It's hard for one person to do this.
A
14:18
Armin
In reply to this message
Definitely. that would be great. I'd be happy to help. Do you have a lot?
V
14:19
Valera K.
In reply to this message
It seems like I have all the known software and all the known files for GRiDs. Something from forum, something from YL3AKC, something from this chat...
👌
A
A
14:20
Armin
I'm still missing stuff like gridbasic etc.
V
14:20
Valera K.
I want to create a nice web interface with a search for programs and documentation in the foreseeable future. I'm ready to finance it and expand on it (for example, 2351, which has little information, will be coming to me soon)
14:21
GRiDBasic is already in archive, if memory serves
14:21
I'll finish assembling the laptop and write to you
👍
A
A
14:21
Armin
In reply to this message
That part I'll leave to you. But I'd be happy to help organise software etc.
14:23
I also have a lot of manuals that I still have to scan
V
14:23
Valera K.
Thanks in advance. I'll be back soon. Otherwise, I'll be doing this alone forever. Ideally, I'd take some screenshots and a description later... Why didn't anyone do this for me?)
14:24
In reply to this message
Oh... Wow, very valuable. Where did you get all this?) I don't remember anyone scanning this documentation before you
A
14:25
Armin
Bought this week from local listing. Together with 2 hdd's and a 1109
🔥
V
V
14:27
Valera K.
Incredible. It's a shame I haven't seen such generous offers in Europe...
A
14:27
Armin
This was in Germany, not that far from me in Belgium.
V
14:28
Valera K.
There are no words
14:28
I thought you were in the USA
A
14:29
Armin
Just was lucky that no one else found the listing. Because the seller put it online without a description. Only "vintage 80s computer for sale" lol
😱
V
V
14:31
Valera K.
I wonder where he got all this from?
14:31
I keep forgetting, I need to ask for a scan of Yuri Leskovits' book about the history of Grid Systems for archive...
A
14:32
Armin
In reply to this message
He bought it second hand from a big international company in 1992 to use for text processing lol.
14:33
I just hope he didn't reformat the two 2101 drives for his text documents
14:34
Will need to look at those after the floppy disks
V
14:34
Valera K.
What incredible luck. I'm so jealous. If I had the chance, I'd buy it all right now.
A
14:36
Armin
I still had to pay €1000 for it. But I think that isn't a bad deal
V
14:38
Valera K.
1000 euro for the discs and documentation? Or was there a laptop included? If so, which one? I'm a bit dummy today...
A
14:39
Armin
This plus disks and documentation
🔥
KL
14:40
It's an 1109
V
A
14:42
Armin
Maybe one of them. I have 2 1101's (one is with YL3AKC for reverse engineering) and 2 1109's
14:42
One 1109 is missing the modem.
14:43
I don't really need that many
14:44
I would love to find a compass 2 somewhere for cheap. I have an 1137. But I would like a normal non tempest version
V
14:45
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Honestly, I want at least one compass. I don't even need a modem. I'm in Spain now, and I can get anywhere quickly and easily.
14:47
But first, I need to finish assembling the Framework laptop, since I started it...
Y
15:22
YL3AKC
I would like to add Your archives to my 18 GB of GRiD data downloaded from Internet...
V
15:40
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Если у тебя есть новые файлы после ноября 2024 года, я их с радостью тоже сохраню. Не думаю, что у меня есть что-то эдакое, чего нет у тебя...
Y
15:42
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Ну... Можем как то после 6 часов сообразить. Я попробую сделать торрент файл и послать тебе. Ну а ты потом мне даш свой торрент. Или как-то так...
15:43
After that I'll try to "sync" data with @ConventionalMemories ...
15:44
Still waiting file hosting from T
V
15:44
Valera K.
Ок, освобожусь, напишу сюда. Но я думаю, что идеально было бы, если ты присоединишься и тоже будешь раскладывать файлы и делать к ним какие-то описание
15:44
Не хочу, чтобы мы делали одну работу дважды
Y
V
15:46
Valera K.
Кстати, если мне у меня будет Компас, сможешь мне помочь с GPIB эмулятором?
Y
15:46
YL3AKC
Even now I am more in spaceflight than on Compass, I'll try to do something GRiD related...
I need to write custom SDL VNC clients for these displays...
I need to write custom SDL VNC clients for these displays...
A
Y
V
Y
V
Y
15:48
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes I am doing what I like, but... Need to finish with @ConventionalMemories 's Compass and send it back to Belgium...
V
15:50
Valera K.
Я так легко не сдаюсь)
Y
A
16:27
I would love to try one of the older ones with the different UI
A
17:27
Armin
17:27
17:27
Here are some screenshots from the old UI
V
A
17:29
Armin
The form based UI was only introduced in grid os 3 iirc
u
17:30
usernameak
before that it was tables and lists?
A
17:33
Armin
Apparently, the whole form filling to launch a program came later
17:34
I do have upgrade notes to go from 2.x.x to 3.0.0 somewhere that describe all the differences
17:34
But I don't have disk images for anything older then 3.0.0
KL
V
17:52
In reply to this message
I could try asking Yuri Leskovits (by writing to his public email). He's been through a lot of laptops and finally wrote a book. Maybe he knows something
KL
18:53
Или он здесь не отвечает?
V
18:53
Valera K.
А, да? То есть всё это время я мог не собираться, чтобы написать письмо?)
KL
YL
18:57
Yuri S. Leskovec
Общий привет 👋
V
18:57
Valera K.
In reply to this message
@leskovezzz, если прочитаете, три вопроса.
Можете ли вы пожалуйста скинуть в этот чат электронную версию вашей книги? Могу ли я её опубликовать в публичном доступе? Я думаю, что ваша книга -- это важнейший документ об истории компании и её ноутбуков. Найти бумажную версию или чей-то скан у меня не вышло. Да и без вашего согласия я точно не смогу её куда-либо загрузить и кому-либо скинуть.
Есть ли у вас собственный архив софта, дампы ромов с ваших GRiD'ов? Армин ищет версии ОС младше третьей, а я продолжаю пополнять архив.
Можете ли вы пожалуйста скинуть в этот чат электронную версию вашей книги? Могу ли я её опубликовать в публичном доступе? Я думаю, что ваша книга -- это важнейший документ об истории компании и её ноутбуков. Найти бумажную версию или чей-то скан у меня не вышло. Да и без вашего согласия я точно не смогу её куда-либо загрузить и кому-либо скинуть.
Есть ли у вас собственный архив софта, дампы ромов с ваших GRiD'ов? Армин ищет версии ОС младше третьей, а я продолжаю пополнять архив.
YL
19:01
Yuri S. Leskovec
Собираюсь до нового года ещё напечатать книги. Электронную версию пока не выкладываю. Своего архива софта нет, искал периодически нужное и сохранял у себя, когда был канал на Yahoo. Но это всё можно найти и сейчас в сети
Y
19:05
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Относительно щлектронной версий... Я подписался на один радиолюбителький журнал. Последние версий публикуется для членов клуба. Не знаю как они делает, но когда качаю журнальчик, там впечатан мой емейл. Если я солю журнал публично, то авторы будут знать кто слил. Ну... Суть понял?
Если сможешь прикрутить такое к электронной версий своей книги, то хоть будешь знать кто слил...
👍
Если сможешь прикрутить такое к электронной версий своей книги, то хоть будешь знать кто слил...
YL
V
19:06
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Про софт понял. Планируете ли публиковать книгу в публичном доступе?.. Или могу я это сделать на VCF и потом на своём сайте?
Y
19:07
Не публично.
YL
19:08
Yuri S. Leskovec
Я свой сайт пока оставил (решил не удалять) vintage-laptops.com. Если что, там сперва выложу
🔥
V
V
19:08
Valera K.
Спасибо большое!
👍
YL
YL
19:09
Yuri S. Leskovec
Книгу надо печатать в глянце, а это не дешёвое удовольствие. Разумеется, за деньги, да)
Y
YL
19:10
Новый надо сайт делать, но пока времени нет
19:10
Работы очень много
V
19:10
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Да можно на ты. Линк и креды скину тебе и Армину, будем в три головы файлики сортировать и дубликаты чистить...
🤷♂
Y
YL
19:11
Я вебморду не сделал и никакого домена не сделал. Сейчас попробовал, а меня по KYC укусили и теперь аккаунт висит на проверке документов
19:11
Но я надеюсь, что вебморда будет, красивая, прям как у @leskovezzz
YL
19:12
Yuri S. Leskovec
У меня сайт ещё 2017 года)
V
19:12
Valera K.
Отличный сайт, всё устраивает)
19:13
Цель моего похода в мир GRiD'ов простая, как тапок: хочу сайт аля macintoshrepository.org, но про GRiD'ы. Чтобы я мог что угодно найти, скачать и запустить на эмуляторе\локально
YL
19:14
Yuri S. Leskovec
Там много других ноутбуков, гляньте визуал под 360гр
19:15
Раньше спины были, но они через украинский аутсорс проходили, потом мне их отключили, пришлось сделать наспех гифки 360гр, без возможности ручного вращения
19:17
Одна гифка состоит из 40 фоток. Начал ещё в 2014 году, тогда не было программ удаления фона через красный маркер, поэтому первые 3500 фоток пришлось фотошопить вручную. Год ушёл, или около того
V
19:20
Valera K.
Хецнер мой хецнер. Почему так не вовремя)
19:21
А зачем сайт удалять?..
YL
19:21
Yuri S. Leskovec
Думал забросить эту тему в этом году
19:22
А потом подумал что столько сил вложено и решил оставить
19:22
Можно посмотреть ретроноутбуки под 360 гр
19:23
И тем более там в коллекции есть все самые первые ноутбуки
V
19:24
Valera K.
Да где, кроме как у вас можно посмотреть на эту всю красоту? Если забросите, останется только ВебАрхив, да и то, пока не помрёт
19:25
А ваш музей ещё жив?
YL
19:25
Yuri S. Leskovec
В этом году я оставил бизнес автозапчастей и полностью ушёл в антиквариат
19:25
Так что ретро тема теперь профессиональная
19:27
In reply to this message
Да, пока в чемоданах всё лежит. Надеюсь музей дострою, осталось всего ничего внутри помещения ремонт сделать и коммуникации подвести. Стеллажи и прилавки под экспонаты уже есть
V
19:27
Valera K.
Ради такого можно будет в Россию ненадолго вернуться
😁
YL
A
YL
19:47
Yuri S. Leskovec
Ретроноутбуки действительно очень красивые, весь этот неповторимый дизайн, можно долгое время смотреть и вдохновляться
V
19:48
Valera K.
Кто-нить знает, как можно быстрее и не руками экспортировать чаты в телеге? Рядом с RuGRiD я храню бэкап этого канала. Но делать его копию руками мне уже надоело)
A
23:31
Armin
The old 1982 manual I have also has some funny hand drawn illustrations. Weird that they couldn't get better drawings before release.
23:31
A
23:49
Armin
@YL3AKC wasn't someone looking for info on gridaccess protocol? I think there is some documentation on that in here as well
Y
A
23:52
Armin
In reply to this message
Just looking trough what i have in these binders. Will have to use the nice tray loader scanner at work. Too much to scan on my flatbed.
23:54
Quick pictures of the Gridaccess protocol. Scanns are for later.
23:54
23:54
Y
23:56
YL3AKC
Got it! Xmodem style. This isn't too hard to implement. Interesting part is what need to be in DATA fields...
23:57
Just use your phone for now. Scan later, when you have more time.
23:58
I am learning how to write own SDL VNC client...
👍
A
20 September 2025
A
13:13
Armin
Hmm this doesn't look good.
13:14
Head completely detached.
13:15
Let's hope there wasn't anything important on this 2101
Y
A
14:07
Armin
I will still try.
14:08
First a dump like this with 3 of the 4 head.
14:08
And then swap platter position.
14:09
And maybe then stich the 2 dumps together somehow. Idk
14:10
Although the head crash left a lot of scratches. So I think a new head will also crash.
Y
A
14:13
Armin
The other 2101 was still working. Unfortunately it was formatted by the previous owner. Only had dos2.11 and wordstar on it plus a lot of his documents.
Y
14:14
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Try to take sector by sector image. Maybe there is still something left no overwritten...
A
14:14
Armin
Already did, unfortunately it was low level formatted
Y
14:15
YL3AKC
That sux!
A
14:15
Armin
Yes, so I'm hoping he left the other one with the head crash on ccos
Y
A
14:27
Armin
Actually getting good reads from the 3 remaining heads
u
Y
u
14:29
usernameak
In reply to this message
heh
though it wouldn't make that much difference - HDDs are not flash memory (where physical and logical layout doesn't map 1:1 at all)
though it wouldn't make that much difference - HDDs are not flash memory (where physical and logical layout doesn't map 1:1 at all)
A
14:44
Armin
as expected the resulting image won't open. but looking at it in hex viewer does confirm it is a ccos disk
14:57
If anyone wants to look at the partial image and see if there is anything useful on it, A quick look does show that it did have the development tools on it.
14:58
I will try to get the other head working but I don't expect that will work.
👀
V
Y
A
14:59
Armin
yes it is head0 that is missing
Y
14:59
YL3AKC
I can see some files and contents.
A
19:53
Armin
Managed to swap the platters, but I'm not very confident it will work
19:54
Too many scratches from the old head.
19:55
Also probably messed-up the alignment.
A
23:36
Next up, try to read the thing.
Y
23:37
YL3AKC
Art of slow motion
V
23:37
Valera K.
Beautiful
A
23:37
Armin
That's not slow motion. This thing is just super slow
V
23:52
Valera K.
@YL3AKC do you have any sources about Gauntlet Digitizer? Any testing program or something else?
In archive I found file digtest.c with description "DIGTEST.C, Gauntlet Digitizer testing program. This code represents the portions of a GRiD Diagnostic program that was written to test the PalmPad digitizer."
Interrupt and their parameters are looks very similar to what Kirill reversed several years ago in pentest for GRiDPad 2260.
In archive I found file digtest.c with description "DIGTEST.C, Gauntlet Digitizer testing program. This code represents the portions of a GRiD Diagnostic program that was written to test the PalmPad digitizer."
Interrupt and their parameters are looks very similar to what Kirill reversed several years ago in pentest for GRiDPad 2260.
23:53
I've been looking for a while now to see if anyone has the full version of the file... If I found full sources then I won't have to finish the reverse
21 September 2025
A
00:27
Armin
In reply to this message
Maybe it was slow motion after all. Apparently the drive is not running at the correct rpm now.
00:29
Idk why. Maybe it's not well balanced now. Or the extra friction from the scratches. Idk. I'll let it cool down and try some more. If it doesn't work after that it goes in the bin.
00:30
Looking trough the partial dump I can't see anything special so I don't think it's worth any more effort.
V
00:31
Valera K.
At first glance, the files in the dump look similar to what we already have
A
00:35
Armin
Yes, I assume most of the software on there is the same as the ones on the floppy disks
00:36
still have to backup some of them but all the development disks have been fuly imaged
00:37
V
09:26
Valera K.
Can you tell me the current state of the Grid DevTools on WebArchive? Link:
https://archive.org/details/integrid-dev-env/.
Has anyone tried building real programs with this compilers? I see the author is tschak909. But how different are these versions from those in the UA571C repository or in other archives?
If no one has, I'll try diff this compilers and libs with the files I have from other sources...
https://archive.org/details/integrid-dev-env/.
Has anyone tried building real programs with this compilers? I see the author is tschak909. But how different are these versions from those in the UA571C repository or in other archives?
If no one has, I'll try diff this compilers and libs with the files I have from other sources...
09:30
This is the list of programs presented in the archive. What other common programs for grids exist that aren't listed?
It seems I need to sit down and finally finish sorting out the Grid software folder. But I want to at least roughly estimate how much software we have
It seems I need to sit down and finally finish sorting out the Grid software folder. But I want to at least roughly estimate how much software we have
Y
09:55
@c0a9e4b7 Let's do archice exchange today?
10:16
Guys, you can try to download this torrent.
V
10:16
Valera K.
Можем. Я попробую залить свой архив на гугл диск, так как хецнер отдыхает и не может проверить мои документы.
К сожалению, я не сохранил твой архив 2024 года и сейчас будет тяжело понять, что у тебя нового...
К сожалению, я не сохранил твой архив 2024 года и сейчас будет тяжело понять, что у тебя нового...
Y
10:18
How to download from google drive easy? Is there an option to download all with single click?
V
10:19
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Я загружу одним ZIP архивом, не переживай. Загрузка в процессе. Архив 5 гигабайт, распакованный 7.5
Y
A
Y
10:21
YL3AKC
If you both start to download torrent, it will take few hours.
A
10:21
Armin
That's fine, I can seed
Y
10:21
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I assume there are peer search problem. torren announce must go thru servers. Need to wait a little bit.
V
10:22
Valera K.
There's a crazy amount of changes from your files... I deduplicated a lot of stuff, sorted through the documentation and software. There's still a lot of "unsorted" folders, and the GRID-OS folder needs restructuring. But that seems better than 19 gigabytes of chaos.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SyBQUMhZjY6H5geABDerwhyd2HwbTaE9/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SyBQUMhZjY6H5geABDerwhyd2HwbTaE9/view
10:24
I borrowed the disk photos and disk image descriptions from a Google Drive from roi21@gmail.com. The rest is from you. I don't know what was found here or who found it...
Y
10:25
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Interesting...
After @ConventionalMemories Asked me to reduce chaos. I tried al little bit. Now there are 2 main folders: Archive (Unmodified stuff from internet) and Research_ my mess including some code written by me, extracted archives etc.
Then regular unsorted mess, including photos.
After @ConventionalMemories Asked me to reduce chaos. I tried al little bit. Now there are 2 main folders: Archive (Unmodified stuff from internet) and Research_ my mess including some code written by me, extracted archives etc.
Then regular unsorted mess, including photos.
V
10:30
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I decided not to leave things from the internet as is. Instead, I immediately began reorganizing and identifying each file.
For example, almost nothing remains of the klyball website -- everything was moved into folders. The ARI is still in the works, the descriptions need to be moved...
I want everyone to be able to open their laptop's folder and see all known drivers, ROMs, and manuals in one place. Each driver shouldn't have an 8-character name, but a description of what it specifically fixes and adds.
For example, almost nothing remains of the klyball website -- everything was moved into folders. The ARI is still in the works, the descriptions need to be moved...
I want everyone to be able to open their laptop's folder and see all known drivers, ROMs, and manuals in one place. Each driver shouldn't have an 8-character name, but a description of what it specifically fixes and adds.
Y
V
10:31
Valera K.
It's the same with programs. Ideally, each program should be labeled with the year, version, and a screenshot and description... This will help when I try running the emulator in a browser. But for now, this is just a dream; there's still a ton of work to do.
A
10:31
Armin
In reply to this message
It would be nice if we could try to maybe keep a list of authors. To give credit to those guys that spent hours scanning manuals etc. ;)
V
10:33
For now, my archive will sit on Google Drive. Once Hetzner verifies me, I'll give you the FTP. Sorry for the delay
Y
10:33
YL3AKC
My GRiD Folder is a little different...
I am doing research and reversing. It is more like active work folder than archive.
I am doing research and reversing. It is more like active work folder than archive.
10:35
In reply to this message
Don't think there are lot if my stuff. I just download things from Internet.
Maybe some research like schematics and disassembled stuff can be credited by me.
Maybe some research like schematics and disassembled stuff can be credited by me.
V
10:36
Valera K.
In reply to this message
You downloaded things, I sorted and added some more files to your things, great teamwork)
10:37
I still don't understand how to save your reverse engineering stuff. Where should I save it, how should I describe it, how should I sync with you...
A
10:38
Armin
I think we need to keep modern projects seperate
V
10:40
Valera K.
I agree. But then I'll have to ping @YL3AKC to save his work on GitHub or something)
Y
10:41
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It's simple: make folder @JDat aka @yl3akc chaos, and put here almost all my stuff.
I have problems to sort photos from this chat like my and @ConventionalMemories photos etc.
I have problems to sort photos from this chat like my and @ConventionalMemories photos etc.
A
10:42
Armin
all my picturs are sorted per computer model on my NAS
Y
10:42
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
After looking on your work I home I'll get some inspiration and ideas how to sort my crap.
10:43
Some sorting from @ConventionalMemories
V
Y
V
10:45
But I will be glad if you upload them here
10:45
For far future)
A
10:47
Armin
Let me sort the software and disk images.
Y
10:47
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Maybe you know how to add torrent to tracker for more easy torrent exchange.
10:47
Something like "add tracker".
10:48
Let's try with magnet link
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:efa6a2f583087291ab9dc8f264af76ec9062a5bd&dn=GRiD_stuff
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:efa6a2f583087291ab9dc8f264af76ec9062a5bd&dn=GRiD_stuff
V
10:48
Valera K.
In reply to this message
No, there's no rush. As you can see, I still have things to do)
Y
10:48
YL3AKC
@c0a9e4b7 @ConventionalMemories add this magnet to your torrent client and share your magnet links, I'll try to aad them to my client.
V
10:52
Valera K.
I use Transmission and he says "torrent metadata needed" and thats all
Y
10:52
YL3AKC
What else we can do?
A
Y
10:53
YL3AKC
Maybe we need to go into grey area... We need to star download the same file from public torrents, this help in peer exchanfe and may it will lekp.
A
10:53
Armin
tried qbittorrent and transmission
Y
10:54
YL3AKC
Let's try this
10:54
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:dac20f8bf3866da6110db6df5742aecdada0d74b&dn=100%2Bmobile%2Bjava%2Bgames&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fp4p.arenabg.com%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F47.ip-51-68-199.eu%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.me%3A2780%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2730%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2920%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopentracker.i2p.rocks%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.coppersurfer.tk%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.cyberia.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.dler.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.internetwarriors.net%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.pirateparty.gr%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce
10:54
100 java mobile games...
10:55
~ 28 MB
V
10:55
Мех_
10:55
Works!
A
Y
10:55
YL3AKC
I am near 30% now and have 1 peer.
V
10:55
Valera K.
Very slow, but works
Y
10:55
YL3AKC
200 kb/s
V
Y
10:56
YL3AKC
10:57
I am 77.219.8.92 mobile network behind two or more NATs
A
11:02
Armin
btw I gave up on the HDD, I tried some more yesterday evening. but the alignment is off, it doesn't find the tracks anymore. I think the alignment between the old and new head is different, anyhow I tried my best. not worth any more time.
👍
V
V
A
11:03
Armin
That is me seeding
Y
A
11:03
Armin
the parts that are the same from last year
Y
11:05
YL3AKC
What if... You both make small torrents and I try to download them?
11:05
Maybe this can help...
V
11:05
Valera K.
No, no, no
Y
11:05
YL3AKC
For a moment I saw one peer
A
Y
11:07
YL3AKC
Cant see any peers now...
11:09
In reply to this message
Hmm... Maybe there is conflict between old torrent from last year and today's torrent?
A
Y
11:13
YL3AKC
I am trying this for torrent
V
Y
11:14
And this
11:14
I am addint trackers to my torrent
A
V
11:15
Valera K.
A
11:15
Armin
yes that's only me. weird
Y
11:16
YL3AKC
Maybe this is because my mobile Internet sux...
V
11:20
Valera K.
While we're having trouble with synchronization, I'll write down my thoughts.
I don't want to bother anyone, neither @YL3AKC nor @ConventionalMemories. I just don't want us to sort through our archives separately. If we have the energy, it would be great to organize something together. For example, add missing programs. Add photos for each model. Describe laptops and the hardware they're compatible. Etc
I don't want to bother anyone, neither @YL3AKC nor @ConventionalMemories. I just don't want us to sort through our archives separately. If we have the energy, it would be great to organize something together. For example, add missing programs. Add photos for each model. Describe laptops and the hardware they're compatible. Etc
Y
V
11:22
Valera K.
I'm ready to host it all. Create a web interface with floppy disk content browsing, search, and all of that. But I can't sort that much information on my own. This year has been fun. Every trip, every flight, I've been slowly digging and sorting through the files. It's quite difficult, especially when I don't have any grids at hand and have little experience with them)
Y
11:23
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Can you create something like FTP or whatever for exchange sync and sharing?
A
11:23
Armin
yes, no need for everyone to sort. why don't you sort most of it and then leave us to do smaller bits.
V
11:24
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Я пытаюсь, блин, но дурацкий Хецнер решил в пятницу вечером запросил у меня документы. Спасибо пожалуйста, ждите. Будет всё это на базе SFTPGo
Y
V
11:30
Valera K.
Я ещё раз отвечу на русском. Простите, тяжело сформулировать на английском.
Я не планировал в августе давать доступ к серверу. Думал, ещё месяц-другой посижу и посортирую документацию и софт, унифицирую формат описаний. Затем уже дам серверу IP адрес и он будет доступен для всех.
Даже название придумал, GRiDGarden.
Но тут активизировался ConventionalMemories. И я понял, что нужно просто взять, поправить самые некрасивые моменты в архиве, и дать доступы. Так то ничего сложного.
Обычно я не использую Хецнер. Но тут я подумал, что так будет дешевле всего. Ну, да. Но про KYC я забыл и попал. Моя ошибка. Нужно было загрузить документы с самого начала
Я не планировал в августе давать доступ к серверу. Думал, ещё месяц-другой посижу и посортирую документацию и софт, унифицирую формат описаний. Затем уже дам серверу IP адрес и он будет доступен для всех.
Даже название придумал, GRiDGarden.
Но тут активизировался ConventionalMemories. И я понял, что нужно просто взять, поправить самые некрасивые моменты в архиве, и дать доступы. Так то ничего сложного.
Обычно я не использую Хецнер. Но тут я подумал, что так будет дешевле всего. Ну, да. Но про KYC я забыл и попал. Моя ошибка. Нужно было загрузить документы с самого начала
11:30
Я не люблю публичить незавершённые проекты. Хотелось всё сделать сразу, красиво и самому)
Y
11:34
YL3AKC
To reduce chaos. I am planning to learn folder hierarchy and then slowly upload my crap in small pieces.
At the same time try to keep local folders in more or less in the same hierarchy.
So guys, just do it, I'll sync with you.
At the same time try to keep local folders in more or less in the same hierarchy.
So guys, just do it, I'll sync with you.
V
11:34
Valera K.
Ok. Thanks
11:35
...
Y
11:36
YL3AKC
Hmm...
A
V
11:37
Valera K.
This will take a long time. So I'll write a second message. But this time in English, for everyone. If you have any comments about the hierarchy of my archive, any comments or disagreements, please let me know! I haven't yet fully decided how I should store and label things
A
11:42
Armin
I would sort per series, Compass, Gridcase etc. and then create folders per subseries, compass 1 and 2, gridcase 12XX gridcase 15xx etc. then per model 1101, 1109 etc
V
11:44
Y
11:44
YL3AKC
Nice, but... What to do with research stuff?
A
11:44
Armin
most system specific stuff could be sorted that way, then software I would do seperatly in 3 folders : Software documentation, Compass Software, Gridcase software
11:45
don't put documentation with the software, some documentation is for multiple systems and some software doesn't have documentation
11:46
In reply to this message
Yes like that but i would put 2102 with compass and 12xx with gridcase
V
11:48
In reply to this message
It seems like I'm trying to do the same now?.. We're definitely talking about my archive, the link to which I posted above?
A
V
11:50
Valera K.
Yup
A
11:50
Armin
haven't downloaded yet
11:50
i'll take a look
V
11:51
Valera K.
Thanks!
11:53
Please take a look when you have time. There are probably still many errors and strange decisions
11:54
I'll take a small break from this work for now
A
11:58
Armin
Looks good, maybe in main folder create Hardware and Software folder
11:59
how do we sort all the later machines that weren't manufactured by grid?µ
12:00
like the panasonic and tandy computers sold by grid?
V
12:01
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Idk, this is a complicated question. For now, I'll just organize them into separate folders by model number, near GRiD Compass and GRiDCase
Y
12:01
YL3AKC
What about "clones" folder somewhere. Then put here like "brand-model" folders. Like "panasonic-PS666" and "Tandy-CL777"
A
12:03
Armin
yes on my nas I sort them in 2 folders, "other OEM Rebranded by GRiD" and "GRiD OEM for other brands"
V
12:06
Valera K.
Hmm, that's an option, I'll do that later
A
12:11
I mean if you really want a seagate ST225 manual you can easily find it online
12:12
we don't have to archive it again because there was 1 special 2101 that used that specific HDD
12:13
idk, what do you think
V
12:18
Valera K.
In reply to this message
This folder is a kind of trash bin where I throw away all the documents that are not related to the GRiD
12:18
It's probably not needed, everything inside it can be easily googled
12:19
@YL3AKC why did you collect all these papers?
Y
12:23
Some of these thing better to have locally.
12:23
This all will go into research folder. Or in my unsorted crap.
techknight joined group by request
V
15:16
Valera K.
Wow, techknight, welcome!
t
15:17
techknight
Howdy
15:17
got invited in by @ConventionalMemories
15:17
didnt know this group existed
Y
t
15:18
techknight
Acquired this for $50 at VCF Midwest, my first machine
V
t
15:18
techknight
I just dont have any accessories or peripherals, so i have no way of getting things on and off of this machine though
Y
A
15:19
Armin
Looks like an early unit, from before they started printing model numbers
t
15:19
techknight
yeah it is. early serial number
15:19
in the 2000s
15:19
has an intermittent power supply so I am going ot need to rebuild that
15:19
has a custom splash screen
A
15:20
Armin
No software in that software binder?
t
15:20
techknight
there is
15:20
but i dont think its all for this machine
15:20
since there is MSDOS in here
A
15:20
Armin
there is a custom GRiD version of dos
15:21
2.00A and 2.11C for compass
V
15:21
Valera K.
If you need help, the author of the GPIB emulator is here in the chat, and above is a link to an unfinished archive with software and documentation.
t
15:21
techknight
Ahh I see
V
t
15:21
techknight
Yeah i have no floppy drive, hard drive, or anything
15:21
so i need some sort of emulator
A
15:22
Armin
Do you have pics of disks, to see if there is anything we haven't archived yet.
👍
V
t
15:22
techknight
I also want to get my own programs on this thing evnetually but i cant find a C toolchain anywhere, and PASCAL isnt my thing
V
t
15:23
techknight
i found some stuff on Trons site
V
15:23
Valera K.
Website in progress, everything here in progress
t
15:23
techknight
but i didnt see any toolchains
15:23
wel C toolchains
V
15:24
Valera K.
You can also see the UA571C project
Y
15:24
YL3AKC
There are poblems with C toolchain.
u
15:24
usernameak
In reply to this message
we didn't fully get it working - there were some HW issues that were corrupting data
Y
15:25
YL3AKC
PASCAL is working and Pascal is not that hard to learn.
u
t
15:25
techknight
im a C guy
15:25
thats just where it is for me
u
Y
15:25
YL3AKC
There is no such thing as "C guy" when you must deal with vintage computers... 😃
t
15:25
techknight
i kind of wonder how hard it would be to build a cross-compiler GCC toolchain for these things
15:25
something to look at later
V
u
t
15:28
techknight
15:28
15:28
u
15:29
usernameak
In reply to this message
binary format may be a problem – it uses a specific variant of Intel OMF format that was kinda dropped from the spec early on, so basically no modern linkers support it
15:29
(and also GCC isn't really well-suited for 16-bit x86)
A
Y
u
15:30
usernameak
In reply to this message
i mean, we have working software but no working hardware for it
V
15:31
Valera K.
In reply to this message
We have this software, but it's great that you have it too. All that's left is to find a floppy disk... Or you can help us with GPIB emulator
u
15:31
usernameak
In reply to this message
signal noise was just too bad for GRiD to the point reads were getting corrupted
Y
15:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
New hardware is already soldered by Kirill, but he didn't tested with software.
👍
V
t
15:33
In reply to this message
Maybe i guess it depends on the linker script and crt0.s. I made a cross compiler that I wrote software in with GCC for the 68000 based STAR 4000
15:33
so it cant be super difficult but then again, i dont know GRID
V
t
15:34
techknight
im not familiar with mame
15:34
ive played with it way back in the day
15:34
but not recently
Y
t
15:34
so i cant read that
Y
t
15:35
techknight
thats a neat gadget though
15:36
i was looking at the floppy drive schematics that tron had on his website the other day
Y
15:36
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
It said: I soldered hardware, hope there be no more problems with hardware.
t
15:36
techknight
yeah i think so
A
t
15:36
techknight
Gotcha
u
Y
t
15:37
techknight
i started throwing the 8051 ROM into IDA and documenting it but then i ran out of steam. thanks ADHD
15:37
i dont have any pictures of the 2102 board, so i dont know exactly what CPU is in there
15:37
and IDA is a bit picky with it
Y
15:37
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I partially wrote my own machine language to C translator. Not finished, but something worked.
u
t
15:38
techknight
I suppose whats missing is all the headers to allow C programs to call OS level APIs for grid right?
u
15:38
usernameak
https://deltacxx.insomnia247.nl/projects/gridcompass/fdd_boards.jpg
it's a normal 8051
it's a normal 8051
t
15:38
techknight
and of course the linker script for building the binary
Y
15:39
Including translator...
t
15:39
techknight
what would be great is an SD card based 2102 emulator
u
Y
15:39
YL3AKC
But it's all a mess whot even I can not understand now.
t
15:39
techknight
as i dont have any drives
Y
u
15:39
usernameak
In reply to this message
that consumes OMF object files (pretty standard for the time)
t
15:40
right now my machine is a brick as it is
15:40
i need a way to get stuff on/off of it
15:40
especially if the bubble memory decides to corrupt itself someday
Y
15:40
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Best solution is to build GPiB emulator if you are planning to build something from scratch...
t
Y
15:41
YL3AKC
And you are C guy, definitely you can finish GPiB emulator.
t
15:41
techknight
ive never tinkered with GPIB before so i was looking at docs
u
15:41
usernameak
In reply to this message
it also can boot from external media, even if bubble is dead
A
15:42
Armin
In reply to this message
can confirm, my 1109 is running without any bubble modules installed
t
15:44
techknight
i do wonder how straight forward it is to just replace the bubble with battery-backed SRAM
Y
15:44
There are also some dumps from logic analyzer.
V
15:45
Valera K.
It would be great if the gpib emulator worked in some form)
I still want to buy a compass and have some plans
I still want to buy a compass and have some plans
t
Y
15:45
YL3AKC
I had an idea to build 7220 bubble emulator using raspberry Pi Pico + SD card.
t
15:45
techknight
if you attach RAM to the bus of the 8086
Y
t
Y
15:46
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
But... There is problem: I am lazy and from time to time lozing motivation to work on GRiD research.
t
15:46
techknight
because you could emulate the HDD, the FDD, and any other fun GPIO peripherals you want such as LAN/Network
15:46
in my case, ADHD/Autism brain
Y
15:48
YL3AKC
Time to waste my live: Going to watch latest Usagi Electric video...
😁
V
V
15:48
Valera K.
Unfortunately, something always gets in our way. Grids are an undeveloped field for projects...
t
15:49
techknight
In reply to this message
probably because theyre rare enough that not many people have them?
15:49
Not sure
V
15:49
Valera K.
These laptops are rare and expensive, especially outside of America.
t
15:50
techknight
I have Gridcase 15XX machines as well which i need to get back to. Both of them have inverter problems where the backlights come on and shut off during POST
A
t
V
15:50
Valera K.
Since I don't like Hetzner, I'll go make a web interface for the archive website. I'm tired of organizing files and I need to make something pretty
t
15:55
techknight
Well i definitely have a lot of work ahead of me lol
Y
15:55
YL3AKC
Like we all...
V
t
15:55
techknight
honestly i had no idea lol
15:55
its all brand new to me
15:56
I suspect the GPIB protocol for the Floppy and Hard drives are unknown as well
Y
15:57
YL3AKC
t
Y
15:58
YL3AKC
Need only some coding.
t
15:59
techknight
before I got sick, i was trying to document the disassembly of the 8051
16:00
I started adding comments
Y
V
16:00
Valera K.
One more reverse project without Github repo, oh no
Y
t
16:01
But i didnt know you could take 8051 into C
16:01
like that
16:02
My thought is this is all pseudocode
16:03
i suppose since all variable names were scrubbed during the original compile, thats how it has to be
Y
16:03
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I am also "C guy" 😃
For me it is easier to convert ROM dump into kinda virtual 8051 and co comment in C code. Then rewrite some ASm commands into for and while loops in C.
For me it is easier to convert ROM dump into kinda virtual 8051 and co comment in C code. Then rewrite some ASm commands into for and while loops in C.
t
16:03
techknight
In reply to this message
Yeah thats fair. I just never knew how to get 8051 ASM back into C
Y
t
16:04
techknight
ive only ever written one project in my lifetime for the MCS51 commandset
16:04
so im not super familiar with it
V
16:05
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Maybe I'll create some kind of organization and we'll put the emulator there, as is, and some other things that are reverse-engineered. Not so much for version control, but to avoid losing existing work. So that everyone doesn't have their own version again
Y
16:05
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
I got inspiration from 8048 disassembler
And reversed 8048 keyboard microcontroller for GRiD Compass.
Then tried the same aproach for 8051, but not finished. And... Schematics are essential to revers 2102 firmware.
And reversed 8048 keyboard microcontroller for GRiD Compass.
Then tried the same aproach for 8051, but not finished. And... Schematics are essential to revers 2102 firmware.
t
Y
t
16:07
techknight
I assume those comments came from known GRID protocol info?
Y
16:11
YL3AKC
There are some documentation (chaos) regarding MC48 keyboard controller. Looks like in folder 1101 there is almost reversed C code for keyb controller.
Interesting thing: how my "decompiler" works...
Interesting thing: how my "decompiler" works...
16:12
In reply to this message
There is characters what 2102 return to Compass when there controller got command "initialize" over GPiB.
t
16:13
techknight
Right. but i see you have it commented
16:13
with definitions
16:13
so that means the protocol has to exist that defines that somewhere?
16:13
all of these
u
16:13
usernameak
i found it in some old sources that I found at some point
t
16:14
techknight
Ahh
u
16:14
usernameak
oh wait no
Y
u
16:14
usernameak
In reply to this message
the actual data was gotten with a logic analyzer on the original floppy
Y
u
16:15
usernameak
this emulator still has some commands not implemented
16:15
so it would freeze Compass if you try to low-level format it for example
16:15
(though it times out eventually)
Y
16:15
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Yes, logic analyzed dumps prove that thus structure exist inside 2102 ROM.
u
16:16
usernameak
i'm pretty sure it was in that external ROM
16:16
not in 8051 itself
Y
16:16
YL3AKC
Looks like fresh blood ( @thetechknight ) give some motivation to return to Compass research...
🔥
V
t
16:16
techknight
lol
Y
16:17
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Totally wrong!
8051 have no firmware on chip. All 8051 firmware code is located in external ROM. 8051 boots from external ROM.
8051 have no firmware on chip. All 8051 firmware code is located in external ROM. 8051 boots from external ROM.
t
16:18
techknight
yeah makes me wonder why they used the 8051 instead of the 8031
16:18
or 8032
u
16:18
heh
Y
16:18
YL3AKC
What is difference between 8051 and 8031/32 ?
t
16:18
techknight
ROM vs ROMless
u
16:19
usernameak
i'm pretty sure that data is plaintext in there
Y
16:20
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
This is because when you or Kirill have unsuccessful ROM dump and haven't 2102 schematics... Huh! That was long time ago...
u
16:20
the floppy disk was the issue
Y
u
16:21
usernameak
In reply to this message
apparently Compass hates if you try using double-stepped HD floppy
16:21
it works, until you try to write anything
16:21
then it just corrupts the entire disk to the point that you have to low-level format to fix it
Y
16:21
YL3AKC
It's impossible to watch video and chat here 😃
A
u
t
16:23
techknight
see that nmakes more sense
A
16:23
Armin
parts shortage IDK
16:23
romms are the same as 2102
Y
t
Y
A
Y
t
16:24
techknight
gotcha
16:24
are these for 5.25" drives or 3.5" drives? whats the grid disk format?
u
16:25
usernameak
5.25 DD
A
16:25
Armin
5.25 360k
Y
16:25
YL3AKC
This is what happening inside PAL16L08
t
16:25
techknight
ah so the same stuff IBM used
Y
16:25
YL3AKC
Basically few inverters and address decoder.
A
16:25
Armin
yes, under dos they share the same disks
t
16:25
techknight
are the filesystems readable by each other or are they proprietary
16:25
i guess the track formatting is the same
Y
16:26
YL3AKC
A
t
16:26
techknight
so almost like Tandy or CP/M
16:26
that makes sense why gotek works
A
t
16:27
techknight
gotcha
16:28
so that means bare minimum i could make up one of those PCBs with the same parts, burn the ROM, and use a gotek and get up and going
16:28
but ultimately the drive emulator is the better idea here
A
Y
16:29
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
And much more easy. Just need some coding on Raspberry Pi side.
t
16:29
techknight
Sure. I just dont understand enough yet on how GPIB works, or the disk protocols
16:30
documentation explaining all the GRID disk protocols would be great but im sure all that is reverse engineered and it doesnt exist
Y
16:30
YL3AKC
GPiB on lowest lavel work as decribed by HP.
t
16:30
techknight
yeah that part i figured out
16:30
its the protocols that differ
Y
16:30
YL3AKC
On top of that there are packet exchange. There are reset, init, read, write packets
t
16:30
techknight
since GPIB isnt really much different than a basic LPT parallel port since its protocol-agnostic
V
16:30
Valera K.
Sorry, I'm confused. Are the 2102 for the gridcase and the compass different?
Y
16:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Well... There are few similarities between LPT and GPiB, but... Only few
A
16:31
2101 is GPIB 2201 is multiplexed ISA bus
V
16:31
Valera K.
A... Thx
t
16:31
techknight
Gridcase is all PC afaik
u
t
16:32
techknight
I documented the LCD pinout for the Gridcase 15XX VGA screen as i kinda wnated to hack an EL panel into it
u
16:32
usernameak
but bootloader and OS memory map isn't
t
16:32
techknight
but never did
A
16:32
Armin
In reply to this message
Kind of the original gridcase line (befor 15xx series) is a middleground
u
16:32
usernameak
also Compass uses LBA and not CHS
Y
u
16:33
usernameak
In reply to this message
so partition table might have issues on older systems (ones that directly use MFM)
A
16:33
Armin
Gridcase 12xx run GRiD-OS natively
t
16:33
techknight
ahh theres inbetween systems i see
16:34
i got the 15xx machines cheap at VCF SW this year, I wanted to sort through for a plasma model but a scalper was on my ass and swooped them all up before i had a chance
16:35
i need 3D print models for a top cover and keyboard bezel for the 15XX, since I picked one up missing those
A
16:35
Armin
I've been looking for a nice VGA 1530, i only have the CGA variant
t
16:35
techknight
i got the EXP version
16:35
so it has the eurodin connector on the bottom
16:35
but no internal storage
16:35
so i was just gonna make a custom card to wack in there to give me PicoGUS and PicoMEM
A
16:35
Armin
Also have one of those, plus the expansion tray ;)
t
16:36
techknight
i never got that unfortunately
16:36
so i gotta work around it
16:36
someone documented the ISA expansion bus pinout that connects into it, so im just going to tap into that
A
16:36
Armin
Yes it's in the technical manual
16:37
and the connectors are the same series as the Toshibas, KEL / 3M
t
16:37
techknight
yeah i had to guess on that, as i wasnt too sure what it takes
16:37
im just gonna make a PCB that plugs into it and has PicoGUS/MEM on board
16:37
call it a day
16:38
itll give me not only audio, but storage emulation
16:38
and NE2000 wifi emulatin
A
16:38
Armin
I was wondering if picomem wouldn't be too slow for a 386 system?
t
16:38
techknight
its weird because one of those machines is HDD only and has a dead conner drive. the other one was floppy only with no HDD
16:39
but i dont think it can do DMA like more modern IDE controllers can so maybe
A
16:39
Armin
Woudn't xtide be better for these machines
t
16:39
techknight
nah same problem
16:39
no DMA modes
A
16:40
Armin
from my tests XTide with a 386 compiled bios is a lot faster then picomem
t
16:40
techknight
hm
16:40
i remember running XT-IDE on a 486 and it was slow
16:40
but i never messed with any bioses
A
16:41
Armin
the XT build is really slow but there are seperate builds for 286, 386 etc.
t
16:42
techknight
that makes more sense. back when i was tinkering wtih it, those builds didnt exist. you had one bios and that was it
A
16:42
Armin
also you could hook up 16bit CF card instead of sticking with 8bit bus on the picomem
t
16:43
techknight
ive had hit or miss experiences wtih CF cards
16:43
im more of an SD card guy
A
16:43
Armin
I assume those sd to ide adapters also do 16bit IDE
t
16:43
techknight
that part im not 100% sure on
16:43
maybe
A
16:50
Armin
For those interested Here's a backup of my FlashFloppy drive, it has all the official GRiD Disks I have, (including the ones I dumped this week)
These are all in IMG format for easy use with Gotek and GRiDiskcom
I will upload the raw flux streams later with better descriptions and scands of the disk labels.
👀
These are all in IMG format for easy use with Gotek and GRiDiskcom
I will upload the raw flux streams later with better descriptions and scands of the disk labels.
V
16:52
I have not included any user made disks or files from HDD images those still need to be sorted.
Y
16:56
At the same time in parallel Universe where I am no doing GRiD research...
Y
16:56
YL3AKC
P
Phil 21.09.2025 16:47:04
Finally received new glass panes cut to size and installed them on to the combiner assy, it's so nice to not have that cracked shattered original glass..
Some slight alignment required though. Also ordered 30% car window tint film, should help with reflectivity ratio
Some slight alignment required though. Also ordered 30% car window tint film, should help with reflectivity ratio
A
V
Y
16:56
YL3AKC
Aka Phil is working on Space simulator hardware...
t
A
17:01
based on ccos disk utils https://github.com/BOOtak/CCOS-disk-utils
t
17:01
techknight
Oh interesting
17:02
thats neat
A
17:12
the owners guide should have a date on one of the first pages
t
17:14
techknight
u
17:15
usernameak
In reply to this message
what's funny, back in those days you could get away with that
A
17:15
Armin
I assume it's the same as this. Oct 82?
t
17:16
techknight
yup it is
A
17:17
Armin
In reply to this message
Tnx. I was hoping it was an earlier one. Then it might have contained some more info on the unreleased 2103 disk drive
t
17:17
techknight
Sadly it is not, it is this exact one
👍
A
17:18
its serial 002891
A
17:20
Armin
I don't think anyone is tracking serial numbers, but that sounds quite early, although it's not like they sold many systems at launch
t
17:20
techknight
yeah thats kinda what im thinking
17:20
they couldnt have sold many of these
17:20
stupid expensive
A
17:22
Armin
At launch they didn't even sell any disk drives. All software exchange , purchase, and upgrade was to be done on line. On GRiD Central servers
17:23
Grid os update from 2 to 3.0.0 took more than an hour of continuous phone use.
17:24
But hey. If you could afford the system you could afford the phone bill
t
17:25
techknight
so cloud computing before cloud computing
17:26
i dont see how you even logon to that system from the way this bubble memory is setup
A
17:27
Armin
You configure the logon file in GRiDmanager
17:27
then the server "mounts" as if it was a system drive
t
17:27
techknight
when i open the Run on grid manager, it just dies wtih 302
17:27
so Gridmanager doesnt openm
A
17:28
Armin
seems like your bubble memory did get a little corrupted
t
17:28
techknight
so to fix that i will need a disk drive
A
17:29
Armin
yeah, Do you have GRiDaccess installed? it supports xmodem file transfers
t
17:29
techknight
nope
17:29
just GridVT100
A
17:30
Armin
then you will need a disk drive i'm afraid.
t
17:30
techknight
thats what i suspected
17:31
so either A) Get the emulator working or B) make a clone of the 2102 or whatever it is
A
17:33
Armin
or secret option C: it seems you have phonelink installed, so use that to dial into null modem and emulate a gridserver on a pc
17:33
JK, that would be a lot more work
t
17:33
techknight
i dont know if that one opens either
17:33
it throws a different error code
17:33
what didnt help im sure is the unstable power supply
17:33
the machine will shut off at random
17:34
i probably have to reformat the bubble memory and reload everything
A
17:35
Armin
I haven't had any intermitted issues with the PSU, mine just worked or didn't. so that's easier to troubleshoot
Y
t
17:35
techknight
yeah when i first got it, it would show the splash and then die
17:35
black screen
A
17:35
Armin
apart from the RIFA's all of mine run on original caps
t
17:35
techknight
with enough coaxing i got it to fully stay up
17:36
then it would just drop dead again
17:36
the modem relay click-clacking over and over again
17:36
so its a PSU problem
A
17:36
Armin
i've had to replace a couple transistors in the PSU of my 1101 but that's it
t
17:36
techknight
yeah something more serious is wrong with mine. its intermittednt
Y
17:36
YL3AKC
Dohh! Sound like I need to finish Compass PSU schematics...
t
17:37
techknight
the larger cap in the secondary has seen a LOT of heat stress
17:37
the machines got some hours on her
A
17:38
on the compass 2 series they added a fan
t
17:38
techknight
steve jobs moment
A
17:38
Armin
haha indeed
17:40
I have had the same system corruption issues tho.µ
17:40
a reformat usually fixes it
t
17:41
techknight
yeah i figured
17:41
if anything it might be wroth saving that custom splash screen
17:41
i just dont know how
Y
A
17:41
Armin
its the screeninit file
17:42
you'll need to boot from floppy to format anyway, so you can backup that file then.
t
17:42
techknight
can the 1101 boot from anything other than bubble?
A
17:42
Armin
Yes from hdd and fdd
17:43
you hold H or F at boot
Y
17:43
YL3AKC
OK. Long story short: @thetechknight Need to service PSU and need external storage (real or emulated).
A
17:43
Armin
you can even create 4 HDD partitions and choose which one to boot
t
17:43
techknight
i c
17:46
what GPIB address is the floppy and HDD at
A
17:47
Armin
it's in the dos documentation
t
17:48
techknight
what would be great instead of bouncing through 50 different books/manuals, is to have a main page that has all the relevant info, mainly for reverse engineering purposes
17:49
In reply to this message
thats good to know, so with a GPIB logger you could get all the raw binary traffic dedicated for those addresses
Y
t
17:50
techknight
No, reverse engineering the drive protocols. gotta know where they are on the bus, whcih fortunately that page answers
Y
t
17:51
techknight
thing is im out of the loop on all of this
Y
17:51
YL3AKC
I got LA dumps and feed them into Pulseview.
t
17:51
techknight
well idk if logic analysis will help me. im more of a raw byte person
Y
17:51
YL3AKC
Kirill worked with real hardware and software, I just kinda assisted remotely.
t
17:51
techknight
ahh
Y
17:58
1) Get SigRok Pulseview
18:00
Then need to setup session and import Session5.csv file.
18:00
Setup pins and apply GPiB protocol analyzer.
18:01
After that you can see what bytes travel on GPiB BUS including bus control messages.
18:01
Looks Like I also need to download latest Pulseview and do the same. I don't remember details.
V
Y
18:03
I am still have 0 peers.
A
18:08
Armin
Just upload it to Google drive or mega for now
18:09
What torrent client are you using?
Y
u
Y
22 September 2025
Y
05:59
1) get/install pulseview
2) import boot 16.csv file
3) set "Column format spec" to "t,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l"
4) add protocol decoder - IEEE-488
2) import boot 16.csv file
3) set "Column format spec" to "t,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l"
4) add protocol decoder - IEEE-488
06:00
You can see now data exchange over GPiB
06:01
48 TPI DS DD response from 2102
06:04
2) import session5.csv file
3) set "Column format spec" to "t,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l"
4) add protocol decoder - IEEE-488
3) set "Column format spec" to "t,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l,l"
4) add protocol decoder - IEEE-488
06:05
Or other csv files
06:06
Original data by Kirill was captures with salae software in .sal format. Then exported from salae software into .csv
06:07
06:08
t
13:16
techknight
Ahh gotcha. I'm not familiar with that software so that's neat
Y
13:20
YL3AKC
Depending on your project, you must implement
* GPiB handshake (pin toggling), interrupt, bus reset and EndOFData
* GPiB arbitration (interpet commands from Compaas GPiB when to receive data, when to send data)
* Data exchange between Compass and FDD. Like: Init/reset FDD, read FDD status, read data, write data
* GPiB handshake (pin toggling), interrupt, bus reset and EndOFData
* GPiB arbitration (interpet commands from Compaas GPiB when to receive data, when to send data)
* Data exchange between Compass and FDD. Like: Init/reset FDD, read FDD status, read data, write data
t
13:20
techknight
First two being part of the gpib spec. The last part being the custom protocol for the grid right
Y
13:21
YL3AKC
There is already C source code that implements all this on Raspberry Pi, but not finished.
t
13:21
techknight
Gotcha
13:21
I think you posted that yesterday right?
Y
13:23
YL3AKC
Yes! I posted.
It's written by @Megabozyakorovka Based on @usernameak work in MAME emulator.
There are twitch live streams when @Megabozyakorovka debugged controller with hardware V0.1 but had some problems.
Hardware V2.0 already exist, but @Megabozyakorovka not tested yet.
It's written by @Megabozyakorovka Based on @usernameak work in MAME emulator.
There are twitch live streams when @Megabozyakorovka debugged controller with hardware V0.1 but had some problems.
Hardware V2.0 already exist, but @Megabozyakorovka not tested yet.
13:28
Somewhere at this point there are PCB and schematics.
V
13:31
Valera K.
If everything goes well, I'll now also be building this emulator...
Y
13:31
YL3AKC
It's mostly software testing problem now.
u
21:00
usernameak
In reply to this message
> First two being part of the gpib spec.
and some minor off-spec weirdnesses that GRiD does
and some minor off-spec weirdnesses that GRiD does
t
21:38
techknight
Of course they did 😂 starting to sound like apple
Y
t
21:38
techknight
Well that's what first came to mind when he mentioned off-spec weirdness
21:38
Apple was notorious for that
21:39
I work on a lot of vintage Apple hardware
Y
t
21:40
techknight
In some ways yes but not always
Y
21:40
YL3AKC
GRiD just made thinks in a way they can on that time.
t
21:40
techknight
Only just recently some of the documentation is starting to leak out on the apple side
Y
21:42
In reply to this message
Apple_Guide_to_the_Macintosh_Family_Hardware_2e.pdf
Unavailable, please try again later.
402.4 MB
Partially disagree...
21:42
There was info, but not for free...
BTW. Interesting book to read how Macs was made and how internals work.
BTW. Interesting book to read how Macs was made and how internals work.
t
21:43
techknight
To each of their own
Y
21:45
YL3AKC
Anyway... GRiD made GPiB in a way they can/need. On that time there was no LPT at all. No ISA Bus etc standards. GPiB was invented and patented by HP. HP call that HPiB. IEEE-488 aka GPiB born on beginning of 80-ies. SCSI was inspired by GPiB.
Y
22:03
YL3AKC
24 September 2025
A
t
02:06
techknight
Wonder how much that'll go for
A
02:08
Armin
Last one I remember sold for 600 usd. But that was new in box. Just havr to be lucky I guess
t
02:08
techknight
I definitely need that though
02:08
Yeah too rich for my blood at the moment
02:08
I make a mid five-figure salary and I'm just scraping by
A
02:09
Armin
Yeah 600 is a lot. But with a bit of luck you might get a good deal.
02:10
It's an early unit, would fit your early compass nicely
t
02:10
techknight
I'll have to keep an eye on how much it goes for
02:10
If it rockets into the stratosphere I won't be able to do anything with it
A
02:12
Armin
The early ones (like this one) have an expansion connector on the back for an extra floppy drive. Model 2103 . But that was never released, AFAIK
t
02:12
techknight
Gotcha
A
03:45
Armin
Hmm seems my own 2102 is corrupting floppys during power on
03:46
I thought that sort of issue was only something you saw on older budget systems like the TRS80
25 September 2025
A
01:52
Armin
Trying to diagnose why my scsi2sd won't work in the 2101
01:53
I thought the scsi2sd had relatively good SASI support. Apparently not so much. Idk
02:03
It's already working with my MFM emulator, but that's a bit expensive to leave permanently installed in the 2101, I'll try bluescsi next. But I suspect that won't be much different. It's something with the bsy and ack signal timings that the 2101 doesn't like I think.
Y
06:22
YL3AKC
2101 use SCSI HDDs?
A
11:14
Armin
Kind of.
The 2101 uses a MFM HDD, but that is corrected to a Xebec s1410 MFM controller. That controller is connected over SASI (precursor to SCSI) To the 2101 main board (which has the 8088, rom, ram etc.)
The 2101 uses a MFM HDD, but that is corrected to a Xebec s1410 MFM controller. That controller is connected over SASI (precursor to SCSI) To the 2101 main board (which has the 8088, rom, ram etc.)
11:18
SASI is no the same as SCSI, and the XEBEC controller has some special quicks. But both the SCSI2SD and BleuSCSI do have partial support for SASI, and Xebec's quirks
11:30
The xebec s1410 was used in a lot of early machines. And looking online some users have had success on replacing it with a scsi emulator. But it all depends on what the 2101 is expecting to hear from the xebec controller.
11:35
@leskovezzz, what do you use with your 2101? The original HDD?
V
16:14
Valera K.
@usernameak @YL3AKC привет! У кого-нибудь из вас есть лишние платы последней версии эмулятора GPIB? Хочу собрать себе, но не хочу заказывать 5 плат у китайцев или немцев
Y
16:23
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
As I know, only @Megabozyakorovka these PCBs . I didn't made any, so I don't have. Looks like you need to scavenge coupon from youtube bloggers and order from PCBWay/JLCPCB
😢
V
Y
V
16:46
Valera K.
In reply to this message
No problem with the price. I just don't want to wait several weeks.
16:46
Although, by the time I buy the microchips, the raspberry, one thing after another, by the time the grid gets to me and all that other stuff...
Y
16:47
GPiB driver ICs delivery from Aliexpress will take more time.
KL
16:48
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Блин. Если будешь в России или если есть кому передать, я бы отправил. У меня есть лишние
V
16:48
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I live in Serbia. Waiting is my credo. Nothing happens quickly)
16:49
In reply to this message
Извини, ты в Питере? У меня в Москве есть человек, кто бы мог мне передать/отправить. А вот в Питера совсем никого...
16:49
В России сам я буду не скоро, что-то мне Испании хватило, напутешествовался)
KL
16:50
Kirill Leyfer
Y
KL
16:51
Kirill Leyfer
Могу захватить с собой платку, микросхемы и даже разъём чтоб тебе ничего этого не заказывать и не ждать
если надо
Либо вообще готовый возьму, а себе новый спаяю
если надо
Либо вообще готовый возьму, а себе новый спаяю
16:51
In reply to this message
Nah, just a listener this time
My good friend Tim will talk about using Amiga in TV broadcasting studio
My good friend Tim will talk about using Amiga in TV broadcasting studio
Y
V
16:52
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Слушай, если можешь, я буду очень благодарен. Можно неспаянную. Если у тебя есть ещё и какие-то микросхемы, чтобы мне не заказывать -- вообще восхительно. Денег переведу без проблем. Это же не евро, это хоть сейчас)
KL
16:53
Kirill Leyfer
I will hand out cartridges with my game to my friends as well :)
Y
KL
16:54
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
Хорошо, плата плюс микросхемы
Денег вообще не надо, какие деньги. Оно всё копеечное и лежит у меня мертвым грузом
Денег вообще не надо, какие деньги. Оно всё копеечное и лежит у меня мертвым грузом
16:54
Лишь бы твой знакомый добрался на выходных до винзавода. И мы пересеклись. Потому что я там не всё время буду
Y
16:55
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
When you are planning to continue GPiB emulator stuff on GRiD?
V
17:02
Valera K.
Сюррелистично, когда три русскоязычных чувака общаются попеременно на русском и на английском)
🔥
YL
Y
17:04
YL3AKC
It's not about specific language. It's because We have some not-russian speaking people here.
V
17:05
Valera K.
Текущие вопросы не важны для других обитателей нашего чата)
17:05
Но да, давайте дальше на английском
YL
Y
17:05
YL3AKC
It like programming languages. We need language where everyone can program. Like C, instead of using at the same time Rust, Java, Python and BASIC... 😃
KL
17:21
Kirill Leyfer
In reply to this message
More realistic quiestion is "if" rather then "when", because right now i'm super overworked
u
KL
17:27
Kirill Leyfer
And the other thing as well
😁
t
A
Y
u
.webp)
Y
17:46
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Same here, colleague leave and I am working 2 duties. 5:30-9:00 and 16:00-21:15 4 weekdays + 19:00 - 21:00 Saturdays.
Only way to relax is hobby programming without using my brains. That's why I am into Orbiter simulator now.
😱
Only way to relax is hobby programming without using my brains. That's why I am into Orbiter simulator now.
V
KL
1 October 2025
t
01:52
techknight
Lost that floppy drive auction. Went for way more than im willing to invest into this stuff
Y
14:51
In reply to this message
Patience, please! If stars and planets align correctly, I'll start with GPiB emulator soon.
V
15:04
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I'm already waiting in Belgrade for Compass from Armin and emulator from Kirill. I think I'll be able to work on the project myself in a week or two.
Y
V
15:07
Valera K.
For the last week, instead of publishing my archive, I've been trying to transfer money to Armin and find people to give me the boards for the emulator from Kirill. It's been difficult, and now I want to move from Serbia to the EU)
Y
15:08
YL3AKC
Good luck with new home!
15:09
I don't know is @Megabozyakorovka GPiB board soldering live stream still available on twitch archives, but... If necessary, I can consult you with GPiB board soldering.
👍
V
V
15:13
Valera K.
Thanks!
t
2 October 2025
Y
15:46
15:48
4 October 2025
V
Y
15:11
YL3AKC
Wow! This is it!
V
15:11
Valera K.
In the meantime, I'll go set up FTP, get (I hope) Compass, and finish organizing the delivery of the GPiB emulator to Belgrade... Multitasking is terrible these days.
15:12
I'll continue organizing the archive and give it a nice face. It's just that I got a cat and I'm a bit overwhelmed.
15:14
Never mind, a few more months of work and it will look much better...
15:15
Gena, Gandalf from Serbia :)
15:15
And this... Tablet? PalmPAD 2350 without keyboard and other stuff, but in perfect state
A
15:20
Armin
In reply to this message
Perfect timing. I just finished scanning all the development tools manuals.
15:21
Still have to check if everything is correct. And run them trough ocr.
V
15:21
Valera K.
In reply to this message
Excellent. I'm trying to get the FTP server up and running now, and I'll come to you with the credits, so you can add them. Sorry for the delay, I've been stuck with some tasks
👍
A
A
15:22
Armin
We have all of them already. But mine are later updated versions. A couple hundred pages extra.
🔥
V
V
19:27
Valera K.
KL
A
19:27
Arrived!
19:29
Everything I need to assemble the emulator will arrive to me on the 6th
19:30
...but I don't have a cable...
Y
20:20
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
What about order HPiB/GPiB cable? eBay, aliexpress. Or... Get connectors and solder cable yourself using 3x STP Cat cables.
V
20:23
Valera K.
In reply to this message
I'll order one cable from China and one from Europe, yes. But since I live in Serbia, I'll have to wait...
Y
20:25
It is interesting, but I found cheaper GPiB Connectors in local electronic store. It is called Centroincs 24 pin connector.
V
20:26
WOW
Y
20:26
YL3AKC
But... they are "one way"
V
Y
20:27
And this should fit on PCB
V
20:27
Valera K.
If it weren't for you, I wouldn't have thought to search for it by that name... Thank you so much!
Y
20:29
In reply to this message
When we designed PCB with Kiril, I accidentally found this connector both in local electronic store and on aliexpress. 3 times cheaper than the same thing but named GPiB.
V
Y
20:31
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Why male should be 90 degrees? Male goes on cable. They should be "straight" or "90 degrees" but in different way "90 degrees" compared to female connector.
20:32
In my local store there isn't male connector for multicore cable at all. Only for flat ribbon cable.
20:34
But... We also have "Kurwa Bober option" from Poland...
V
20:40
Valera K.
It would be great to have a male connector on the board so you don't need a wire. But never mind, I'll order one now; it should arrive from Niš in a couple of days.
Y
20:42
What else you need? DIP sockets, 16 resistors, 2 capacitors and pin headers.
20:43
Regarding resistors. I fit them really close so try to get 0.125W or smaller thru hole resistors or use SMD resostors.
20:44
Kirill wanted vintage look, so he used THT capacitors and resistors...
20:46
There are also possible to add 2x5 pin connector for I2C. Then you can add I2c keys + display. This is totally not programmed yet in code, but in future it is intended to use for showing some kind of status and disk image selection.
V
20:47
Valera K.
I'm holding the board in my hands... The chips and connector will arrive on Monday. I'll assemble the cable this week. The resistors should be in Belgrade, so I don't think there will be any problems. It would be great if I could build my emulator next weekend.
20:47
If you also start building the emulator, there's a chance that we'll finish the work this fall and the first 100% working version will appear
20:48
I see a place for I2C, I have a screen, so...
Y
20:49
Regarding Kirill's code (based on usernameak MAME code). You need to remap I/O pins in code. This is because PCB was made after Kirill stop tinkering with GPiB emulator code.
20:49
Pins in code and on PCB are totally different.
👍
V
V
20:52
Valera K.
I'm surprised the board is so simple. No complicated chips, nothing. But I really can't understand why we need a Raspberry Pi for this? Why not use some microcontroller?
20:53
I'm even surprised that the RPi app in the userspace have correct timings
Y
20:53
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Because Kirill started to build emulator with RPi.
Yes, it is possible to use microcontroller or whatever you want.
Yes, it is possible to use microcontroller or whatever you want.
20:55
In reply to this message
GPiB is not critical for timing and we measured RPi GPIO speet. It was like 2 -4 microseconds - totally OK GPiB.
Maybe if tou made GPiB master emulator for reading 2101 hard disk, it can be little slower. Or, maybe even with existing RPi speed you will not get any problems with read/write speeds.
Maybe if tou made GPiB master emulator for reading 2101 hard disk, it can be little slower. Or, maybe even with existing RPi speed you will not get any problems with read/write speeds.
20:57
It is important to solder IC's correctly, because thre are two types of ICs - sn75161 for not GPiB master devices and sn75162 for GPiB master devices.
20:57
sn75160 are used in bot master and non master devices.
20:59
I recommend to use DIP socket and install 161 or 162 correctly.
21:00
And there is no need to cut any wires on PCB or solder any bodge wires.
A
21:00
Armin
You could temporarily use the internal pin header inside the compass.
Y
21:00
YL3AKC
But... if you are using SMD version for 161 or 162, solder them correctly on 1st try.
21:02
In reply to this message
Haha! Nice catch! I think my PCB is compatible with Compass internal connector. PCB have additional pin headers parallel to GPiB connector. Not beeped connectors. Need to research that.
V
21:02
Valera K.
I don't see any saved twitch streams related to the gpib emulator. And since I don't know anything about GPIB... I'll go try running SFTPGo again. Then I'll read and figure out what Kirill managed to do and how it's supposed to work.
Y
21:04
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
If timing be correct we can make video call and I can help you. But... I think you are smart enough to fire it all yourself.
"It's not music theory"
"It's not music theory"
21:04
V
21:05
Valera K.
I worked as an embedded developer for several years. I'm capable of reading obscure code and datasheets. I'll just finish urgent matters and then get to work. Luckily, Kirill saved everything I need
Y
21:06
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
Then you already figured out how to correctly solder 161 or 162 on PCB...
And you don't need my help at all...
👍
And you don't need my help at all...
V
V
21:08
Valera K.
Practice will show whether I can solder two DIP chips from the first time)
21:09
"С первого раза", я забыл как это будет на буржуйском...
Y
21:10
YL3AKC
In reply to this message
By looking on 161 and 162 on datasheet you understand why i designed PCB in a way it looks no - universal PCB to accept both 161 and 162...
V
21:13
In reply to this message
I'll read it and figure it out. For now, I want just test my GRiD Compass. It warmed up, so I turned it on. It's such a cool thing!
21:16
@YL3AKC It looks like you've reversed the compass modem. Are you done with reverse? My version doesn't have a modem and sound. If you finished, please share schematics
Y
21:16
YL3AKC
21:17
